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nt

Well, if you start coding in FB we MIGHT forgive you...

*glares*

Quote:Why cant the Formcreator just create code that makes direct calls to gdi32?

Probably because most controls do not call gdi32, they call user32.

Okay, it was..

PB vs FB

now..

VB vs Everything. :*)

Nah, MSVC++ 6 in MSVS needs like 5 times size to install as compared to VB. Trust me on this, even w/o MFC, it stiil needs like 3x size. Sio VB aint bloatware. Nor is it slow.

I'd go with VB for GUI and FB for games and Demos.

A carpenter has a lot of tools because no one tool could do the job.

Quote:You use the tool for the job, Antoni. No one is going to use VB6 (or anything Microsoft-based after Visual Studio 98) for portable programs that need to be able to run on the fly like that. In fact, if you don't do a static compile in VC++ 6, you're still going to need a runtime module (msvcrt.dll).
.

Tou are too optimistic, Nek. People uses VB for these uses because it's too much effort in moving to a suitable tool, then you have the built-in comm port support...

I'm starting to think in my case the best tool would be PowerBasic...

What most of you fail to realize is that the runtime DLL is needed just once. Imagine that VB could statically link the needed modules from the runtime to your EXE. If you have 100 VB programs, the space required would be much bigger than the needed to store 100 VB programs without runtime modules and just one DLL. It's like common libraries such as Allegro, FMod, SDL... They are most used in DLL form 'cause if the final user has 10 games installed that uses FMod or Allegro, those DLLs are copied just once to their Windows/System folder.

Most people have the DLLs already installed, so when it comes to download a program from some webpage they can be given the opportunity of downloading a shorter, smaller version without runtimes.

Plus the fact that you are not comparing things fairly. Pure C programs with raw API calls don't need a rontime. BASIC programs do need one, as they are at a higher level. '$DYNAMIC / DIM a AS STRING needs runtime functions. So the comparison is anything but fair.

Again, every language has its use. Language fights are stupid.

Rarely do I hear people complain that they need sdl.dll or the Allegro dll for their downloaded programs, yet they'll throw a fit ten ways till Sunday about needing msvbvm60.dll. Hypocrites.

Well, even QB give you the possibility of making a compact executable or use the external runtime. Who uses the external runtime?

Allegro, SDL etc are third party add-in products, not a built -in part of the language.

Nathan: Any C++ compiler does variable length strings on the heap without a dll.

I would be not so angry against VB if newer versions of the dll's supported older executables. I once had a problem with two VB4 exes needing differnt sets of dlls because they were compiled with different builds of VB4

The runtime library in QB was 20 Kb. Pasting it to an EXE (which is what LINK does when prompted for a static build) doesn't make any harm, your exe goes from 100 to 120Kb maybe. But now go and paste the 1.6 megs runtime to the end of each EXE...

The QB runtime was used in the old days. You had a 180 Kb diskette with several QB programs, so you only had to stuff the runtime once. Same applies now to VB.

I don't know where you all find the bloatness. 1.6 Mb is a perfect price to pay, having in account the huge amount of functionality VB provides. 1.6 Mb installed once in your 120 gigs HDD won't do any harm.

I prefer it this way. In the same way I don't do static links of FMOD or Allegro, I prefer having small EXEs and a separate DLL with the runtime. 'Cause I just need it once. I don't have 200 FMOD.DLL around the hard disk, I have it once, in the Windows/System dir.

PB doesn't need a huge DLL... but it doesn't give even the 1% of functionality. Does PB have picture boxes, image lists? No. You have to code them using USER32. Imagine you code a graphical app in PB with all those widgets. You end with a huge 2Mb EXE. In VB, you have a 100 Kb EXE and a 1.6 Mb runtime. What's the difference?

I'll tell you: hype and 1337-ism Many people think that they are more 1337 'cause they prefer to spend 2 hours coding in PB something that takes 2 minutes in VB.

Not everyone has 120gig HDs nathan


And I don't care if I have to find the runtimes again, if I'm missing them I need to get them if I want to run the program.

No need to bitch and whine about it.


Also, MSVCRT.DLL

Visual C runtime library, comes with Windows... so almost any program today have dependencies, unless you write it in ASM, and make everything yourself.. but that wouldnt work on too many computers.


VB is for GUI applications, PB is for non-gfx applications, FB, is for Games/GFX intense stuff


an we all just move along now?, arguing over languages is kind of boring... someone start a flamewar instead... more fun...