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Quote:Zack: In calculus, we use 1/0 = infinity all the time. It's one of the fundamental axioms which allow us to determine the limit of an equation.

Agamemnus: Gravity on any certain point will be equal to the summation of the product of each mass surrounding it divided by R^2, with a scaling factor thrown in there. This does mean that if you approximate the earth as a solid ball of matter, as you get further down into the earths crust, gravity will "reduce" because the opposing mass at the other side of the earth will decrease the effective gravity.

However, this isn't the end of the story. The force applied upon the center of the earth is equal to the sum of the force exerted upon the earth by the entire mass still affected by gravity. You can argue that the ground isn't affected by gravity, and I can then empirically prove you wrong by throwing dirt at you. The sum of all the force applied by all the different layers of the earth, with all their different gravitational constants, is then multiplied by the area of the core. With that completed, you'll immediately see that there are massive pressures at the center of the earth. Those pressures increase the melting temperature of any substances unlucky enough to be that far down, resulting in a solid core surrounded by superheated magma. As an aside, the high energy at the core MAY result in a point gravitational field because the amount of energy would raise the relativistic mass.

Different gravitational constants? I'm not sure what you mean - g is always the same, seeing as it's...a constant.
There are massive pressures, and IMO Joe explained it the best - two masses half the size of Earth press upon the core, compressing it.
You have to take into account every force acting upon an object. If two objects are pulling on something equally, then the object is in equilibrium, and, all things being equal, it shouldn't experience any further acceleration. But it will be compressed! It's like two objects attached by springs, one at the top and the other at the bottom, and you are in between those objects. The springs will try to bring the objects together, but I would be in the way - I'd feel the force, accelerating me at the atomic level and causing pressure.

No, g isn't always the same(in case there is some misunderstanding, G doesn't change anywhere). In fact, if you're in New Orleans and use a spring style scale to weigh something, and you use the same scale in Colorado, you'll end up with much different values because of the different values of g.

Sorry, are you talking about the gravitational constant in the law of universal gravitation or something else?

Quote:However, this isn't the end of the story. The force applied upon the center of the earth is equal to the sum of the force exerted upon the earth by the entire mass still affected by gravity. You can argue that the ground isn't affected by gravity, and I can then empirically prove you wrong by throwing dirt at you.

Not sure what you mean by "still affected by gravity", but I never disagreed with that.

Quote:The sum of all the force applied by all the different layers of the earth, with all their different gravitational constants, is then multiplied by the area of the core.

Not sure what you mean by gravitational constants. I assume you mean the surface area of the outside of an arbitrary "core".

Quote:With that completed, you'll immediately see that there are massive pressures at the center of the earth. Those pressures increase the melting temperature of any substances unlucky enough to be that far down, resulting in a solid core surrounded by superheated magma.

You need to divide all the gravitational forces by the surface area not multiply by the area to get pressure on the sphere's surface area, per square unit of distance. You also need to account for other forces as I said before that can counteract the pressure exerted by the force of gravity.

Quote:And if you don't understand, I recommend taking a physics class or at least reading a book. Glenn isn't the only person around here with university-level physics under his belt, and watching your weekend warrior attempts against people who are also applied or theoretical physicists is painful.

Another one trying to turn this into a credential contest. That's what, 3 now? Don't make me laugh.

Quote:Don't lecture me about learning concepts either.

I'm just trying to help here. If you don't want to learn then it's your choice. I'm sure you can find a book in a library nearby that could explain this phenomenon better than all of us here. Like I said, it's no mystery.

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Agamemnus Wrote:

Radical Raccoon Wrote:You'd still have a pull to one side, but the opposite side is also pulling on you just as much; that's why you wouldn't move, not because there is "low" gravity.

What's your point? You're just proving what I've been saying. The effect of the forces cancelling out is low gravity.

Forces cancelling out doesn't equal low gravity. Let me state this one more time. The reason you don't feel anything at the center is because you are being pulled by gravity, but from all sides.

You're hopeless. What do you define low gravity as then? THERE IS LOW GRAVITY because if you measured the gravity effect on particles, it would be LOW..

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Agamemnus Wrote:You don't add up the forces because of the reasons I mentioned and I'll mention some more, too: friction, the permeability of matter, magnetism. If you hit a ball with force X, which is moving at force Y, and that ball hits you afterwards, the total force is not force X + force Y. Don't lecture me about learning concepts either.

I'm just trying to help here. Do you want or not want to learn why there is pressure at the center?

No, I don't want to learn why I am wrong, because I am right.

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Agamemnus Wrote:So? The force will be small at the center because gravity will be low. Just because everything forces towards everything "below" it doesn't mean that you can somehow add up the forces. You're going to lose a lot of that force from simply the density of matter that stops the force, from magnetism, and also from the much smaller force in the center and near the center.

You don't just "lose" force. It has to go somewhere.

Newton's 3rd law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

That's just a vocabulary identity. Yes, you do lose force, from the total force of gravity on an arbitrary sphere of matter in the center on those items. There is no law that says "force is transferred with 100% efficiency between one particle to another".

Quote:If the density of the matter is blocking the force, then it is also pushing back on the force. This is what creates the pressure. Gravity pulls on the matter, the matter has nowhere to go, so it pushes back on itself. Now you might reply "but since there is low gravity at the center, then it's not pushing back on itself as much." But remember, there is gravity at the center, lots of it. But it's not really the center that creates the pressure. Consider the crust of the earth. With it being that high, which direction do you think it is being pulled? Downward I would hope. This massive amount of matter is pushing down, so is the mantel. Now even if there was 0 gravity at the center, what difference is that going to make? There's still a massive amount of matter pushing towards the center. This will definately create some pressure.

That pressure will be created at that point where it is "pushing back" (not really pushing back), not at this arbitrary sphere farther "down".

I never said there was NO pressure, either. (I think)

Looks like you got to my reply before I edited it. I took stuff out because I don't want to debate this anymore. I'll close by reposting this:

Quote:Don't lecture me about learning concepts either.

I'm just trying to help here. If you don't want to learn then it's your choice. I'm sure you can find a book in a library nearby that could explain this phenomenon better than all of us here. Like I said, it's no mystery.

Quote:You're hopeless. What do you define low gravity as then? THERE IS LOW GRAVITY because if you measured the gravity effect on particles, it would be LOW..

You're talking about the net force, the difference. The "difference" is low, but not the gravity. Of course it's all relative, and in that sense you would be correct, but still so would I.

Quote:No, I don't want to learn why I am wrong, because I am right.

Wow.

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Agamemnus Wrote:No, I don't want to learn why I am wrong, because I am right.

Wow.

Indeed. Why is it so amazing that I am not posting to ask you people to disprove that I am wrong but rather to post my theory on it, which none of you have so far been able to disprove?

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Agamemnus Wrote:No, I don't want to learn why I am wrong, because I am right.

Wow.

Indeed. Why is it so amazing that I am not posting to ask you people to disprove that I am wrong but rather to post my theory on it, which none of you have so far been able to disprove?

"Wow" again.

If you read this entire topic, you might notice that you've already been disproven many times. If you don't see that, then ok.

I suppose it is possible for the earth to have a cold, low-pressure center, that is if the earth consisted of a hard candy shell in the center that was thick enough, dense enough, and tough enough to support the surrounding weight. I don't think there's any current method to disprove this idea. But you on the other hand propose an idea that's already been disproven, by earthquakes in fact.

Everyone's fine with theories being given, but proposing a theory that's been disproven, with nothing but your own idea to contradict it, is still fine. But when someone pwns you, like SJ Zero, take it as a favor and take the opportunity to learn about it rather than refusing to accept the idea that you might be wrong. If you still think you're right, then fine, but go do some research on it and put your theory to the test. If it's true, then there's nothing to be afraid of, then you can come back with numbers, proofs, equations to pwn us all. But I don't see that happening. You're not making any ground, but just blowing smoke with replies like "I am right, you are wrong" which do nothing but to damage your credibility.

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Quote:And if you don't understand, I recommend taking a physics class or at least reading a book. Glenn isn't the only person around here with university-level physics under his belt, and watching your weekend warrior attempts against people who are also applied or theoretical physicists is painful.

Another one trying to turn this into a credential contest. That's what, 3 now? Don't make me laugh.

No, don't make ME laugh. I'm getting sick and tired of your buffoonery. You aren't a kid anymore, you should learn to accept that some of us have grown out of pretending to be Steven Hawking, who can visualize physics, and gone on to practice applied physics.

"It is then alarming to me that people have assumed that the core of the earth is a superhot heavy solid. Would it not be more logical to predict that it would be a super COLD light GAS instead? That would make all that magma above it actually make a lot more sense..."

Is this not what you said?



If your calculus is rusty, I'll work out the numbers for you, but the fact of the matter is that the same massive forces which are responsible for the fusion in the sun, and the creation of black holes implies that you shouldn't have to.

This is why people pull credentials -- because you have to have a minimum level of knowledge not to be just another weekend warrior who thinks that because they can visual ize something, the mathematics has to back them up on it.

(For the record, my calculus equations my be imperfect, but they get the point across -- the entire force of each "particle" of the earth will be pointing with a more or less "downward" position, and that force is concentrated upon the "zero point" at the center of the earth which is the molten core.

Also, FCenter integrates from 0 to R, and pCenter integrates from 0 to 2pi or 0 to 360, depending on your measurement sytem.

You're the one trying to say that the currently accepted theories are wrong. Many people who actually can prove to have the knowledge they claim to have disagree with you. Furthermore, you're complaining at the lack of a Glenn who knows physics to come to your "rescue". So either put up or shut up. Stop trying to play your fancy religious emotional games with the laws of physics, and either show us something that actually indicates that you know the first thing about what you're talking about, or stop laughing at people pointing out that you should relent to the people who actually have some measure of training.

Just in case you haven't figured it out, it doesn't MATTER that there's no gravity in the center, because the energy doesn't come from the gravity THERE, but from the gravity ABOVE, which is pulling the earth towards itself due to the large mass on the other side of the planet.