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death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-22-2004
Hey, I am on the same side as Agamemnus for once. Except for this:
Quote:Unfortunately, it is rather difficult to get stability in many parts in Africa, as it is a gun-soaked region.
So is America. The difference is, they are in constant civil wars (I have no idea what over).
death penalty - Rhiannon - 02-22-2004
:rotfl:
Right.....the US is so nice that they employ third world country people to work for them and giving them such a better chance at life.....beautiful i tell ya.
:barf:
Ok for real man, what world are you living in? Do you not know of the coal industry, the diamond industry, the sweatshops, etc, etc? "But people are getting paid" youre prolly gonna say. They sure are....they get paid such a misery you couldnt even feed your dog with the salary they get. And I dont think YOU understand capitalism. See, you must cut costs as much as possible and maximize profits. So who cares if you have to employ some Indian children to sew your clothes for 5 cents a day? I'm also sure noone's gonna miss those Africans that risk their lives in the mines every day hunting for gems so that they can be sent to the US to be polished and sold for thousands, while the miners get paid a misery. I really dont see these countries getting richer. Besides, why no employ US workers? They are highly skilled, and would also help our own economy. Oh...that's right, because it costs more. SO why not go to Mexico, Costa Rica, China, India and Africa, and employ the poor people there who would do anything for a piece of bread to feed their children. The US is just so kind....:roll:
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-22-2004
Quote::rotfl:
Right.....the US is so nice that they employ third world country people to work for them and giving them such a better chance at life.....beautiful i tell ya.
:barf:
Ok for real man, what world are you living in? Do you not know of the coal industry, the diamond industry, the sweatshops, etc, etc? "But people are getting paid" youre prolly gonna say. They sure are....they get paid such a misery you couldnt even feed your dog with the salary they get. And I dont think YOU understand capitalism. See, you must cut costs as much as possible and maximize profits. So who cares if you have to employ some Indian children to sew your clothes for 5 cents a day? I'm also sure noone's gonna miss those Africans that risk their lives in the mines every day hunting for gems so that they can be sent to the US to be polished and sold for thousands, while the miners get paid a misery. I really dont see these countries getting richer. Besides, why no employ US workers? They are highly skilled, and would also help our own economy. Oh...that's right, because it costs more. SO why not go to Mexico, Costa Rica, China, India and Africa, and employ the poor people there who would do anything for a piece of bread to feed their children. The US is just so kind....:roll:
Again, only adressintg part of my post. 8)
Well, first of all, the mines in Africa are owned by goverments there, not by US businesses. But lets look at the clothing factories:
What is your problem with them? We are offering them an opportunity to work! If we left, they would be unemployed again. No one is forcing them to work there you know!
death penalty - na_th_an - 02-22-2004
Oh, men, you both live in a sort of bubble. Go to Thailand. Visit nike's, reebok's, levi's or another brand's factories. That's what I call true modern slavery. Africa is how it is nowadays 'cause of the big rippoffs that Europe and the U.S.A. did in the past centuries.
Btw, when I say "socialist" I don't mean "communism" like in the USSR, China or Cuba.
Again, yours may be the richest country in the world, but people are starving on the streets. I think that's a problem.
The problem with you is that you live too well. If you were unemployed, or you were poor, or you lived in a hispanic ghetto in Detroit you wouldn't think the same. That problem is the same that many people has in developed countries. They think they are the good boys, and that they have the right to do and undo and to decide what's good and what's wrong and what does a poor country need. You invaded Afghanistan, you invaded Iraq. Sure, those countries were in a bad state, but the problem is that you think that you solved the thing and that they are fine now when that's completely untrue. Iraq is a hell, just a different hell.
And poor countries are leeched by rich ones by one single reason: globalization. Globalization takes poor countries even deeper. They have to pay more for medicine, they have to compete against big powers in a shared market. Their prime materials are being constantly sucked up by our aspirators, paying them 1/100th of what they cost.
Quote:The reason that many African and South American countries did not grow at all during this period, and continue not to grow, is because of stability issues. Regardless of the reason for instability in many African states, it is there.
And now that's fun. You are talking about stability issues in South America. Well, let's try to make some history. Who put Noriega in Nicaragua? Who helped Pinochet to begin the dictatorship in Chile in 1973? Who aids the SPARCs and the ultra-right-wing guerrillas in Colombia? Now talk about mid-west, who helped the Talibans to reach to the power? Who propicied the IRAQ-IRAN war in the eighties? Who sold weapons to Saddam Hussein for that war? Who trained Usama Ben Laden?, I can follow... what was the sense of Vietnam? Why did more than 1,000,000 of innocent people die in that war?
All that lack of stability has been produced by YOUR COUNTRY! Please, don't you ever say that your country works for freedom and peace and stuff, 'cause it does exactly like every country does (or tries to, the thing is that only your country is capable): work for itself stepping over the rest of the world. Free Iraq? Why? Why Iraq and not, for example, Zimbabwe or Ruanda? ah, I see. No petrol there. Oooh...
And now you seem amazed about the fact that the half of the world don't like the U.S.A. very much. The explanation is simple: You've been doing whatever you wanted with the rest of the world for 100 years.
death penalty - na_th_an - 02-23-2004
Btw, I am amazed on the way you talk about poor countries and poor people. They are not farm animals.
death penalty - Rhiannon - 02-23-2004
*wags her finger at nathan* Youre lucky youre in Spain young man, else i'd report you and have you arrested according to the Patriot Act, you damn terrorist!
:roll:
BTW PlayGGY, in those goodhearted sweatshops, children as young as 7 work alongside brothers, sisters and parents for a misery a day. They just dont tell you that on the news cuz they are too busy going on about the war. Also....when you have a family, and children, and in some cases, parents to take care of, you will work anywhere and at anything to feed them. "They dont have to work there you know". One day you will be where they are and will eat your words.
death penalty - adosorken - 02-23-2004
In an upper middle-class suburb of San Francisco, a group of energetic nine- to eleven-year-olds tussle for control of a soccer ball. Their Little League uniforms are pretty well stained by now, as small lungs gasp for air in this fierce competition. It is for the Division Championship. The score is tied with only minutes to go. There is much at stake. The shrill blast of a whistle announces a foul. One side of the field emits a loud groan in unison, immediately followed by angry protests directed at the referee. The free kick could mean the championship. Coiffured heads quiver with rage as inch-long, manicured nails stab the air to emphasize pleas to reconsider the unjust call. Nearby males, in expensively casual sportswear, with $150 sunglasses dangling from shirt fronts, add their bass voices to the rumble of complaints.
On the other side of the field, equally coiffured heads tilt sideways, lazily, as huge smiles greet the announced foul. These manicured nails delicately encircle bottles of imported mineral water. Dainty sips are taken. An occasional male belly-laugh is heard in response to the truly impressive invective echoing from across the field.
Later the winners, with their children in tow (the actual players who won the game for these ecstatic adults) celebrate the victory at a pizza palace. Silence is called for, and someone proposes a prayer of thanksgiving. Impatient children scowl as they bow their heads, eyes firmly fixed on the piece of pizza that will be claimed as soon as the interminable prayer is over. O give thanks unto the Lord, for he is good
In India, a three-year-old girl squats in a shanty. Her tiny fingers are stitching together the six-sided pieces of leather that will ultimately become a soccer ball. She earns six cents an hour for her work. Her hands are too small to manipulate scissors, so her older sister does the cutting for her. At the end of her labors, approximately sixty cents and ten hours later, the shiny new soccer ball will be ready to be shipped to the USA. There, with a major name brand proudly emblazoned on its skin, it will command a price of $30 to $50.
In Pakistan alone, an estimated eleven million children work for similar wages, in equally squalid conditions. The median age of children entering this dead-end workforce is seven. Stitching sheds dot the countryside, filled with children workers who have been sold by their poverty-stricken parents for as little as $15 each. O give thanks unto the Lord, for he is good, for his mercy endureth.
In a luxury apartment overlooking Central Park, an enraged matron screams at her maid for spilling coffee on the hall carpet. Tiffany jewelry jangling with her furious movements, the outraged employer asks the terrified employee if she knows how much that imported carpet cost. The maid stares at the floor, silently shaking her head to indicate no. At the end of the tirade, the maid is directed to fetch cold water and towels, with the full understanding that her employment ends at the precise moment that the coffee stain is deemed permanent.
Sputtering with impatience, the matron flips open her cell phone and calls the caterer. Just how many calls, she is wondering, will it take to arrange for a simple ice sculpture and food and drink for two hundred people? Her daughter's wedding is only two weeks away, and none of the plans has been finalized yet. The florist caused her most recent ulcer flare-up. Why should she suffer just because there was a killer frost in some God-forsaken backwater? She wanted orchids and roses to be an exact shade of pink, and she knew that's why hot houses had been invented. So what was the problem?
Now she slammed her phone closed while the caterer was still trying to explain about some sort of warm spell in Minnesota that made the orange caviar unavailable this season. Warm, cold, this wedding was going to be the death of her. She took two Valium and began to calm down.
The calm was short-lived, however, as she watched the maid's futile attempts on the hall carpet. She had paid $2,000 for that damn rug! Too late to buy another one before the wedding. She had her firing speech all prepared, but decided to postpone it. She needed the maid for the wedding. Afterwards, she would fire her, deducting carpet cleaning charges from the severance pay. There would be no references, of course.
At last, though, the glorious wedding day arrived, sunny and beautiful. As she watched her lovely daughter affirming her marriage vows, she closed her tear-glistened eyes briefly and offered a silent prayer of thanks. Her twenty-year-old daughter had her whole life in front of her, with her handsome, pre-law bridegroom. A flicker of a smile crossed her face as she added an addendum to her short prayer. She thanked God that the stain had been removed from her precious carpet after all-and for only $250. There was no doubt in her mind at all. God had truly blessed her.
Half way around the world, in a gloomy, airless room, a ten-year-old boy squats in front of a carpet loom, tying knots. He will stay in this position for twelve to thirteen hours daily, six days a week. He will earn about two dollars for a week's work, the results of which will be an exquisite carpet that will sell for $2,000 in the USA. He is coughing and hacking as his lungs fill up with carpet lint. His spine is becoming deformed from his perpetual squat. Like many of the boys around him, he will not live to see his twentieth birthday . . . .
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.
I Chronicles 16:34.
From http://www.thehappyheretic.com/
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
I am getting extremely tired of this... you skirt around what I said, without responding to it.
Now, do you disagree with this statement that I wrote, one of the many you have not responded to: What is your problem with [businesses that employ people in third world countries]? We are offering them an opportunity to work! If we left, they would be unemployed again. No one is forcing them to work there you know!
I will give you the courteousy of responding to what you said, even though you and Rhiannon consistently don't adress the points I have made.
1. Yes, our government is screwed up. We'll support one leader, he'll turn on us, and then we will fight a war with him. Yes, that sucks, but it isn't the doing of the free market, it is the doing of an overbearing government.
2. Opening up countries to foreign investment is about the best thing you can do to a rotting country ready for change. If the economy is in shambles, people will be willing to work for less. Companies, eager to turn higher profits will go in and employ as many of the people as they can. As more companies come in and compete over the cheap labour, wages naturally rise. With this influx of money, prices will also rise, and more a more developed economy emerges.
death penalty - Rhiannon - 02-23-2004
Really.....so it's ok to employ children and have them work in infrahuman conditions? Or do you think they work in nice buildings with comfy chairs and A/C? And I already answered your question, the problem is they exploit people, and why dont you answer this question: Why not employ US workers, who are more skilled than third world workers?
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
Adosorken, I will re-itterate to you (whom I might add denied that Saddam commited the attrocities untill I showed you proof from several different news siites :normal
, the poverty you describe is the result of socialism and corrupt government. What do you think is the source f their poverty?