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death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
This is getting insane.
You are mad that the companies are going to thrid world countries for labor. You said "Being forced to work there does not mean "at gunpoint", it means, in this case, "or else you die for your own resistance"". So, I will say it again: Will those people who either work or die be better off when their jobs leave their country to go back to the US/Europe/Asia? Please answer this.
You also stated that China is recovering by itself. You and I both know that you are lying. While they are inacting capitalist reforms which are greatly imporving the future for its people, there are so many jobs that western companies give them (Ever seen Made In China?) that it is rediculous to say that we aren't helping.
Quote:The source of poverty in general is rooted in how a government administrates...nothing to do with its type. Here in the USA (and yeah, I'm in the USA), poverty runs rampant in big cities. What? We're a capitalist nation? So then why do we have poverty?
I have no clue what you mean by your first statement.
But you next ones:
We aren't anywhere close to pure capitalism. We have so many government programs that trap people that it is sad. But evenb then, the poverty you speak of would be bliss for most of the world.
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
Quote:That's not a reason to not employ US workers who are in desperate need of jobs. Also, no need to write in caps, i can see, read and understand just fine.
I wrote in caps because it seems that no one understands that. As for employing US workers: We don't have very high unemployment compared to the rest of the world. But if those companies did dome and hire US workers, we would have very high prices on our goods, meaning we could buy less goods. Our standard of living would drop.
Quote:So basically what you are saying is that US companies are a gift from the Goddess to these people, and that US companies are closing operations in the states, leaving thousands of people unemployed, to take those jobs to third world countries becuz they need the jobs and since the jobs arent skilled then they can do it?
Sort of...[/quote]
death penalty - Agamemnus - 02-23-2004
Yes, let's divert to China now.
Because of globalization, China is now dependent on wheat from the US.
death penalty - adosorken - 02-23-2004
I feel like I'm talking to a freakin' brick wall, but anyways...
Quote:You are mad that the companies are going to thrid world countries for labor. You said "Being forced to work there does not mean "at gunpoint", it means, in this case, "or else you die for your own resistance"". So, I will say it again: Will those people who either work or die be better off when their jobs leave their country to go back to the US/Europe/Asia? Please answer this.First of all...probably. Because without the US involvement, they would have to come up with their own methods of making an economy. It would be painful to start out but no more painful than the forced crap they have to deal with already. Of course, it's a risk, and one they're not willing to take, as humans have a tendency to take the easier path when faced with difficulty. But to leave them in their current state is not beneficial to them or to us as a whole...it only benefits big business, and you KNOW it.
Quote:You also stated that China is recovering by itself. You and I both know that you are lying. While they are inacting capitalist reforms which are greatly imporving the future for its people, there are so many jobs that western companies give them (Ever seen Made In China?) that it is rediculous to say that we aren't helping.I did not say that we are not helping. I said that we are not the cause. Again, read carefully.
Quote:What I meant by that first statement was that it does not matter what economic system a country uses...what matters is where the money goes, who's in charge of what, and so on and so forth. Poverty happens because these elements are out of place. And as there is no such thing as perfect communism, such there is no such thing as perfect capitalism either. Both systems work excellent in theory, but both fail in implementation because they are tainted by the human factor. Humans are greedy. Humans are materialistic. Humans want to get ahead of the other humans. It's basic high school psychology.Quote:The source of poverty in general is rooted in how a government administrates...nothing to do with its type. Here in the USA (and yeah, I'm in the USA), poverty runs rampant in big cities. What? We're a capitalist nation? So then why do we have poverty?
I have no clue what you mean by your first statement.
But you next ones:
We aren't anywhere close to pure capitalism. We have so many government programs that trap people that it is sad. But evenb then, the poverty you speak of would be bliss for most of the world.
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
Quote:First of all...probably. Because without the US involvement, they would have to come up with their own methods of making an economy. It would be painful to start out but no more painful than the forced crap they have to deal with already. Of course, it's a risk, and one they're not willing to take, as humans have a tendency to take the easier path when faced with difficulty. But to leave them in their current state is not beneficial to them or to us as a whole...it only benefits big business, and you KNOW it.
What is it about having foreign companies there that keeps them from still using their own methods of making an economy?
Quote:What I meant by that first statement was that it does not matter what economic system a country uses...what matters is where the money goes, who's in charge of what, and so on and so forth. Poverty happens because these elements are out of place. And as there is no such thing as perfect communism, such there is no such thing as perfect capitalism either. Both systems work excellent in theory, but both fail in implementation because they are tainted by the human factor. Humans are greedy. Humans are materialistic. Humans want to get ahead of the other humans
Well, that is exactly what an economic system is: deciding where money goes. In capitalism, money goes to those who earned it: to those who invest their time and labor in echange for money.
And you can have pure communism and capitalism. The question is, whether it would be what it promises. Communism cannot, because it (like socialism) goes against the nature of people: the love of competition, and the desire to have more than others. Capitalism harnasses that nature to its fullest.
death penalty - Rhiannon - 02-23-2004
Yes, it must be bliss to have to go wash your clothes in the river, haul water back so you can cook a little food, and then walk your kids to school. Real bliss.
Also, just to prove that people are forced into working for these companies, here you go:
India
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Library/9175/inquiry1.htm
http://www.indianembassy.org/policy/Child_Labor/childlabor.htm
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/india/
Asia (China, Japan, etc.)
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/china010308_explosion.html
http://hrw.org/reports/2000/japan/
USA and the Americans
http://www.vachss.com/help_text/archive/ibrahim.html
http://www.vachss.com/help_text/archive/restavek_haiti.html
Africa
http://www.vachss.com/help_text/archive/chocolate_slaves.html
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
Could you show links from websites that don't have a motive? From the embassy link (the only one that isn't addmitedly biased), you learn that the businesses don't force kids to work, their parents do.
EDIT: The link about China from ABC is unbiased (a news site), and it showed that the government was forcing the kids to work, not US businesses.
death penalty - adosorken - 02-23-2004
Quote:What is it about having foreign companies there that keeps them from still using their own methods of making an economy?:roll: Why do I even bother...
As I've outlayed at least three times so far...
The United States of Aggression, as I will from now on refer to our beloved country as (thank you, Judith Hayes), is in enough economic trouble. These jobs need to be returned to OUR COUNTRY to fix OUR OWN ECONOMIC PROBLEMS. And where do you get this "still using their own methods" thing from? Wow, that one's dizzying to even look at.
Quote:Well, that is exactly what an economic system is: deciding where money goes. In capitalism, money goes to those who earned it: to those who invest their time and labor in echange for money.You cannot have purity in either one. Like I said before, the human element distorts this. Whether something works in theory or not is baseless when put into implementation in the hands of imperfect humans.
And you can have pure communism and capitalism. The question is, whether it would be what it promises. Communism cannot, because it (like socialism) goes against the nature of people: the love of competition, and the desire to have more than others. Capitalism harnasses that nature to its fullest.
death penalty - Rhiannon - 02-23-2004
If the govt isnt stopping it, the govt is allowing it, and are prolly getting paid very well to do so. And it must be hard for a parent to give up one of their children in order for the rest to eat, or do you really think it's just that easy? You seem to have no human compassion whatsoever, a true capitalist pig. And i'm guesing you didnt read all the links, since some are from newspapers.
Now i dont know about you, but I sure wouldnt want to use products that i know were made with children's blood. I applaude these organizations that are trying to defend the very people exploited by captialist pigs.
And please define socialism, cuz you dont seem to understand what it is, and are confusing it with communism, which is very different.
death penalty - PlayGGY - 02-23-2004
Quote:And where do you get this "still using their own methods" thing from? Wow, that one's dizzying to even look at.
I got those exact words from you, actually. 8)
And you didn't answer the question at all that I posed, instead just saying that we need our jobs back here.
Quote:You cannot have purity in either one. Like I said before, the human element distorts this. Whether something works in theory or not is baseless when put into implementation in the hands of imperfect humans.
Right, but it is imperfect humans that makes capitalism work. The whole friggin' system is set up on the fact that people are greedy. People want money, and will work for it. In communism, people are not rewarded for their work, so there is no motive.