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Personal attacks
I have to agree with Z!re here. Alot of the names mentionned I didn't even know existed...but I know that if one person can dare to say this about the whole list of people that was mentionned, Z!re can. There's 1600 and some members. Without organization, chaos (no offence chaos lol) is just around the corner. The more members join, the more often these situation occur. There will always be people to test the solidity of the community so to speak. I think, from what I'm reading that maybe the role of the moderators and admins should be clearly defined here.

Very briefly, moderators should have more than one their job description.

1. They should be present, if anyone has a complaint they PM the moderator of the board where the event occured, if they have to wait a week before they get a reply, how do you think it makes the user feel? especially the new comoers.

2. They should maintain their boards often. A moderator should be given a board to manage/moderate. When users go to a specific forum, it should state that this board is moderated by VonGodric, not by "Moderators" it's always good to associate a name or nickname of a living being rather than a pile of moderators, users won't even know who they can expect a reply from, hence a very insecure environment to be in especially if there is a conflict.

3. Moderators should entertain their board (atleast those boards where the users have the right to visit). Why? because a boring board is not visited. A board moderator should be as entertaining as he/she is in control of the situations that can happen. if the users know that the situation will be fixed, then they'll be motivated to form a complaint in the first place instead of becoming a dead member because nothing's being done about the situations that occur.

4. A Moderator has the authority to delete posts that he she deems offensive as per the guidelines of the forum. A moderator should be given the right to do just that and not have to rely on an admin to clean up the board or approve his decision to delete a post. Moderators should be clearly informed of what forms an offensive post and have the authority to act upon it. Should a user not understand why a moderator delete his/her post, then the can send an "official complaint" to the admins.

In short (yes that was short) that should be what defines a moderator). Of course, like Z!re said, this means that a moderator should be present (maybe not 24/7) but at least a couple times a day, every day unless they leave for a vacation or something. Like the old saying goes, when the cat isn't there the mices party. Even if they know there is a cat that lives in the house, if they know the cat is never there, they'll feel free to do what the want.

An admin is everything a moderator the powers that seperate the admins from the moderators (which also mean they should be there, there's many admins, sure you can split the weeks among yourselves evenly to make sure that there's atleast one present at all time to answers the calls of the users/moderators when the admins are needed.

Admins are there to make the board pleasing as well. When an idea to add a categorie or a thread to the board is presented, it sholdn't be put in file 13 and forgotten forever. It should be studied and evaluated (hence admins actually should perform some work once in a while) to make sure if it can be a good idea or not. regardless of who suggested it, and whatever grudge oen fo the admins or mods hold against the one that suggested it or makes a complaint.

This should be my last post for the next 9 to 10 days. as I am going offline...but I really thing Z!re has a point here, and I had to add this post to it. This is how you can claim to have a successfull board, and also how you can help reduce the gap between people that join and people that actually post. Hope this makes atleast one of you reflect for a while. I think there's alot of useful information in my post. :-).

I'll see you all when I get back. and I can't wait to see the feed back I'm gonna get :-) good or bad. I think what I said makes alot of sense, alot of common sense at that :-). Hey I'd love to help out when I get back too. If there's a position and you guys want to, let me know :-).

Take care everyone,

See you in 9 to 10 days :-).
hen they say it can't be done, THAT's when they call me ;-).

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I understand how ridiculously difficult this job must be for admins/mods. We're a picky bunch, enjoying freedoms while at the same time enjoying peace. Frankly, it would be too easy to kick ass anytime things got heated, and I really appreciate that you don't (anymore). Wink

That said, perhaps you could clamp down a bit in the main forums, while leaving the debate&discussion forum as it is? Frankly, as long as there's a place here I can speak my mind without fear of locked threads, I'm happy. It's generally unspoken that you should try to be civil wherever possible, but in a forum such as this, some poeple are doomed to be attacked for their beliefs on either side, which isn't GOOD, but as they say, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the fire. Smile

I've always felt that useless flame wars were a sign of a healthy community, but that doesn't mean we should have bedlam and anarchy wherever we roam. Smile
Uh oh. I hope this isn't going to the road that we went down last time...

Look, I know how difficult it is do administrate a forum of this size, and while Zire hasn't put it well at all, I agree with some of the things she said. Like SJ said, you could go ahead and kick ass at everything that might be a personal attack, but you don't, and that's good.

Might I ask which threads in particular provoked this? Or who this is actually aimed at? I don't like these subtle gestures implications that you've used here.

I said this last time, and I'll say it again - a Toasty forum. That's all the moderation you'll ever have to do.

I don't think appointed more moderators or administrators is the key - frankly I think you have too many as it is. 5 people could easily handle the entire forum. Even on busy days, I alone am able to view almost every single thread with new posts in it.

And Zire - I know they aren't your owners/gods/masters or anything, but show a little decency. I know the moment someone bitches at you you'll start flaming away.

Personally though, like I said, I feel toasty moderation is all that is needed in any forum. And if you're too weak to take criticism, then tough.
avinash.vora -
Quote:1) Noone is happy with the current situation

2) Admins do nothing about it

3) Moderators do nothing about it

4) Suddenly they whine about it..

5) Well, do something about it then..
Hehe, this out of rage.

Quote:This whole situation, with flames etc, people leaving, and a generally bad mood/atmosphere around here is all because the amdins and mods decided to dont give a rats ass anymore..
They give "rats ass" thats why they have the rules up here.

Quote:Now, if we start breaking down to the regulars so we have something to pick from, something me and VonGodric did over MSN when we talked about it, we get:

Sterling - Comes around every now and then

v3cz0r - He rarely visit anymore, and I doubt he bothers to read any forums beside the FB ones

lillo - He visits.. the FB section

Whitetiger0990 - Who is gonna be the first one to say: He's just 14?

Neo - Comes around, but would probably be too nice for the admin/mod position, and wouldnt do anything

VonGodric (Yes, I know!) - Same as Neo, though VG didnt come around much before. And when he did it was mostly for FBIDE

Oracle - Where is he anyways?

Fling-master - So what have you done the past 6 months while QBN has been sinking?

Dav - rarely here

Jocke The Beast - Visits every now and then

Antoni Gual - Same

Adosorken - Oh, ya, he left cause this place sucks.

Na_th_an - Oops, he left too..

Plasma - Damn...

Jofers - Still active in the FB documentation section
You know why? Because some of us here have a real life unlike some people who are online 24x7 at QBN .... *spamming*

Quote:Wildcard - Sure, you're here.. so? You dont do anything.. Going down with the ship?
Thats funny, he has always responded quickly when I PMed him. He is always around and quick to fix problems.

Quote:Me - I know I come around, and I know I'm a good admin, others know this too, if you (wildcard) would bother asking
ROTFLMAO dont flatter yourself. After those attention whore stunts you pulled off if I were WC, I would've banned you.

Wow, someone who makes posts like these is *really* worthy of being an admin.

Quote:And I'm not saying this to be mean, or to pick on anyone, or to start a flamewar..

Quote:wildcard, set aside personal disslike, do you want to save QBN or not?
So, you're saying that you're the only one here who can "save" QBN... :rotfl:
I was a bit surprised seeing this topic. Well, it might be true that i gone a little far with some of my topics (Like the 9th May 1945: Victory or Defeat), but i was not offended since i am here since three years (Because of certain things i had to change my name, but that had nothing to do with QBN or anyone on here). Although i not really programmed Basic since long so i did not really visited QB/FB forums too frequently, but i do not really feel that something went terribly wrong.

Possibly only with QB. It was simply abandonned because of FreeBasic, and become just a mess of mostly begging for school homeworks, or projects changed to FB. If the moderators would put that last in FB, and close the first, i think there would be approx. one post per week there. Neglected stuff. Nobody seems to be interested in DOS anymore - or possibly in QB's slowness.

I think what would give a lift here is to focus on FreeBasic (Although i not really like it: for me Basic and DOS 16 bit are something inseparable), and the same time triing to keep up QB things by changing the subject to Retro Basic programming - with any 16 bit Basic compiler (There are advantages of it too. The system there will not change anymore: grab DOSBox, and be happy Smile ). A better compiler for it would not hurt either, without that it will possibly die no matter how much effort was spent on it to keep alive, but this is a bit off from here (I tried to talk about it at FB, but it sunk).

In overall i do not really think that these are going on because of the moderators. I am recently driving myself mad with triing to code in C++: as the technology developed, simply programming "gone mad", and more and more people started to fear of it - some feeling that there is no way to catch on with it. A strong, active retro side would be good to make these fears passing since those 16 color games in 320*200 are not so "frightening", and anyone can believe who is interested in it that once (s)he can write such. Then if (s)he did, then it will be not hard to believe that more can be done, then more, and more, and then "Need for Speed Underground"! Big Grin

I just talked about it since i think mostly with FreeBasic a huge seperation came, and beginners now afraid of joining here / ones already here afraid of writing in prof. topics, and the like. So some hierarchy rose here as here are programmers from absolute beginners to experts who write FreeBasic, and that makes the fears and the such what makes QBN sinking. While only QB existed it was not so visible, but now with FB it blasted off. So somehow these fears and such should be made passed to keep this place alive.
fter 60 million years a civilization will search for a meteorite destroying most of the living creatures around this age...

There must be a better future for the Cheetahs!
TBBQ: No. Z!re's not saying he's the only one who can save the forum. He didn't type that, imply it, nor post an image with that corresponding text, so where you're getting that from remains a mystery. Learn English.

Anywho, while the moderation definitely could use some improvements, I don't see why saying something about it needs such hostility, Z!re. Wildcard didn't really blame anyone in particular, yet you act as if he picked you out by the arm and told you to stop. Wildcard saw a lot of flaming (even though I'm not sure where that flaming is...), so he made a topic asking for it to stop. You didn't make a topic complaining about it in the first place, so now you're going to start when he actually makes a step in the right direction?
OK. Yes. See, this is what this thread is try to deal with. Zire, you just provoked flaming from tbbq, and tbbq, you just flamed Zire. In a thread about stopping people from flaming each other on the forum.

Next time you post, think about what you're saying and remember that insulting someone's intelligence, integrity, or status in life will ONLY result in them making some equally appalling insult to you. That's why eye-for-eye laws suck, it transfers to conversation.

Also, digging for old quotes to judge someone with really does make things worse. I've said dumb things that are on the internet, everyone has. It's not worth dragging to the forefront unless it's very relevant to the conversation at hand.

Really, insulting people on a forum in general is something to avoid. Think about it: you likely have not, and never will, meet this people in real life. What do you have to gain by it? You, or them, don't even have to talk or listen to each other, unless you go the forum and click on a thread and post. You don't have to listen to people you don't like. That's why flaming is pointless. If you really think someone is stupid, or pathetic, or whatever, just don't talk to them, it's that easy. I only wish I could not talk to the people I don't like in real life, I try to do this every day and fail.
Well, im a quiet one in this forum but i have few forums around the net and i like to stick my spoon on this soup :lol:

1. Problem is, there are so many users from so many different time zones that if you want forum to be clear of flaming etc. stuff, you just simply need lot's of more moderators.

2. I didnt check, but does moderators have certain areas to keep an eye? No point to let all moderators watch all areas. Moderator A keeps an eye of FreeBasic area with moderators B and C. Moderator D watches QB area with...and so on.

Its easy to check some certain area, its pretty quickly. Log in, check new posts and go back on real life. Even when im having barbeque partys, ill check my pet forum time to time (once/twice on evening) and make sure theres no posts that needs to remove. Takes few minutes.

3. After every few months, owner of site should find out does all moderators still feel like they want to continue with theyr jobs in here. If any one even doubts, new moderator on "ring" and old out.

But one thing is good. Its good to conversate about these things, quietnes in this point would be bad thing 8)

UGH, i have spoken and ill hide there somewhere :lol:
Yeah, nick changed from lurah, but bullshit's are the same.
Quote:OK. Yes. See, this is what this thread is try to deal with. Zire, you just provoked flaming from tbbq, and tbbq, you just flamed Zire. In a thread about stopping people from flaming each other on the forum.
Jofers, I just cleared up misconceptions that he may have. If I had to flame him, then I would've done it at every chance that I had. Z!re leaves a lot of flame baits. If you don't believe me then search these forums. I got pissed with this post because despite his "unstable" behavior and flames that he has started in the past, he has the audacity to suggest that he could be a better admin than WC while accusing WC of inaction and irresponsible behavior. I just can't stand it! I've turned a blind eye towards all of his flame baits in the past but some just deserve a good bashing from me.

Quote:Also, digging for old quotes to judge someone with really does make things worse. I've said dumb things that are on the internet, everyone has. It's not worth dragging to the forefront unless it's very relevant to the conversation at hand.
Old? For one its not an old post. Secondly, it is VERY relevant to this conversation. A person who wants to be an admin must show some qualities like maturity, diplomacy, responsibility etc... And very least of all *arrogance* which I find abundantly in Z!re. You will find a topic named "goodbye", "i'm killing myself!", "i'm leaving".... after every n days. I don't object to these topics. Heck! I don't care to reply to them. But does this behavior even remotely resemble that of a responsible person? :o let alone a forum admin?

Call me old fashioned but I think it is very disrespecful that such a person would insult WC and accuse him at the same time. Some of you may think I am a staunch supporter of WC or the admins. Don't harbor that misconception since there have been instances in the past that I wasn't happy with the decision of the forum admins. Plus, I am a strong critic as well.
I understand where you are coming from. But what to you is "clearing up misconceptions" comes across as an insult to Zire, and others. It's also flamebait. The moderators will take care of anything they find inappropriate from Zire, and your disapproval of Zire's comments should come across as "I don't think that's correct", and very specific/direct, not "...some of us here have a real life unlike some people who are online 24x7 at QBN .... *spamming*". There are much better ways of saying that.

I'm not trying to say you didn't have a valid point, but be considerate of your audience, that's the whole 'ultimatum on personal attacks' thing had to put here in the first place.

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