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Sonic X-treme update - adosorken - 04-01-2005

You can't please everyone, hehe. Big Grin One of the things I thought of with SonicX was perhaps jb wanted to give the game something that it never had before...expandability. Anytime you make a game expandable, you give it limitless possibilities (Wetspot II anyone? hehehe).

As far as game remakes in general go...well, many people have done them. How many Space Invaders clones have their been? Wink Right now, one of my side-projects is a remake of the game Exile that was a major hit on the TurboGrafx 16 console (and a ridiculous flop on the Genesis port). I have no intentions of expanding it, just correcting a few bugs and enhancing the graphics. My purpose for this project is to bring this game, which would normally only be available to a limited audience, to a much wider audience. Ya, the game is that damn good to warrant a remake. Big Grin

So anyways...think what y'all want, in the end it's your own opinions anyways. No one can take that away from you. Just certain people need to realize when someone's giving an opinion and when they're being insulting...


Sonic X-treme update - jb - 04-01-2005

Nek (Adosorken), you are right on the money. I have tried to make it expandable. Right now, a system is finished that reads a script containing levels and bitmap pictures. These levels and bitmap pictures are played in order. So, SonicX V10 is going to be a real game. Also, anyone can write one of these scripts, so anyone can make a total modification.

The character sprites are also fully user modifiable to. So, if anyone wanted, they could make this into an original game. But, what I want to do is to make an original Sonic game. By original, I mean in the sense of the story, as it still takes place in the "sonic universe". The "sonic universe" would not be the "sonic universe", without familiar graphics.

Aetherfox. Please don't think I care anymore, as I don't, but I feel I must restate this. Although you claim that you did not mean to offend me, you did. And you had full knowledge that what you did was offensive, because I told you it was. Claiming that, "I have an issue with taking down my posts" is not a strong argument when you have made an agreement to the contrary.

It is a very weak argument in fact. About what you said about bullies here being nice. I don't agree.

After ignoring one of my posts that directly criticised your logic, you said my game was crap without appropriate justification. So that I couldn't respond to this, you said that you wouldn't be visiting this thread anymore.

Despite this, you did revisit the thread so that you could attack me personally by saying that I had no idea about anything.

you then wrote

Quote:What this forum doesn't know is that you came crawling to me after I pretty much ripped the ground out from under you. You almost begged me to edit out all the harsh things I said against you. Obviously, I declined.

This wasn't just hurtful, it was untrue. I sent you an email to sort things out with you, not to crawl. And, you did not decline, you accepted my request.

When I pointed this out, with the email you sent me, you had to go one step too far. You printed an entire email conversation I had with you. Which is fair enough, but you were not content with this. You had to pyschoanalyse me too.

Dr Aetherfox wrote:
Quote:I approached this in a civil way, and can't really understand why JB still carries a grudge, but the little bit of psychology I've studied and from what I've seen in people around me, some people just like to escalate their problems and try to attract attention.

Following my claims that you are a bully, you wrote that:
Quote:I wish bullies here were as nice as the ones you meet.

I'm glad that quite some time ago, my parents had the capability to send me to a top private school. I really have never seen a bully act as mean as you have acted in this forum. If you have, I really do feel sorry for you.

Like I said before, this is just a forum, and it doesn't really matter. So, I have no hard feelings. This is my final post in this forum, so you can say what ever you want to, in reply.


Sonic X-treme update - na_th_an - 04-01-2005

Pete, I think we have a language problem Big Grin let me explain some points:

Quote:What pisses me off is how self-righteous all the people are who make games with original graphics, original music, original characters, an original story, etc. They think that anyone who doesn't do the same has thereby made a game of lesser value.

That's only 'cause drawing the GFX, composing and making the Music and the SFX take way more time than actually coding it. As a game program, I couldn't care less if artwork is original, 'cause what matters is that the game is funny and well coded .But as a whole, as a product, I tend to give more value to original (yea, i.e. new Wink) artwork 'cause, while it can be (it will be) amateur and with less quality, the game creator has spent a good amount of time on designing it. There's much more effort put on the product. Imagine you have two equally killer engines, one with the Zelda tileset and another one with original (i.e. new) graphics. Which one is better, more valuable to you? That was my point: Ripped artwork don't make a game worse; original artwork make a game more valuable - as in the developer has worked harder on it. That doesn't mean that a game which has a killer engine and ripped graphics has to be worse that a game which an unplayable engine but with original graphics.

Quote:Besides, ripped graphics, characters, music, etc. are almost always superior to the work done by amateurs. Sonic the Hedgehog's graphics are far better than just about anything I've seen done by a QB programmer. So is the music.

Yeah, but those graphics and music were designed for another (commercial, copyrighted) game. Your above statement could be considered like some kind of "you won't ever surpass the quality of profesional pixel artists, so steal their sprites instead of creating yours". Of course your sprites will be worse, but they are YOURS, created by you to fit your game. You spent hours on them. That's what I call "valuable". As I wrote above, it's the difference between spending 1 month coding and 3 designing graphics and spending 1 month coding and 1 day ripping graphics.

Imagine that, at school, you have to write an essay about physics. Instead of writing it yourself, you take an article by Albert Einstein and give it to your teacher. Shouldn't he complain? After all, Einstein's articles are much better that what you could have probably written. Well, this is the same case but with game graphics, sounds and music.

Quote:So Na_th_an, when you say:

Na_th_an Wrote:I myself have been coding a sequel to a famous Spanish 80s game called Phantomas. It is a sequel, meaning it uses the character and game style, but not a single tile or sprite (and there are around 2000+ of them), not a single background image, sound or tune have been ripped. Does that mean that the game would have sucked if it had ripped artwork? No, but I think that everyone will agree that it is better and more valuable the way it is.

I don't agree that just because you have done "original" (ie: new) artwork for your sequel, that it's instantly "better and more valuable". In my opinion, your artwork IS more valuable if it truly is BETTER than the original game's artwork...but ONLY if it actually is better. If it's a pathetic imitation of the real thing, as are most graphics done by fans, then you can't say that your work is more valuable. What would you rather see -- pathetic fan art or the superior source material that inspired it?

That's the prob: "valuable". I didn't mean "valuable" in an absolute sense, i.e. $20 is more valuable than $5, but in a... uh... figurative sense? My English fails here. It's in the fashion of a mother who likes his son's drawings rather than a Michaelangelo. That's what I meat with "valuable". I finished the engine for "Phantomas" in two days. If I had ripped the GFX and the level data the game would have been finished in 1 week. But I spent almost two years drawing tiles and sprites. That's what I call valuable.

(and, by the way, I think my GFX are better, considering that the original game was for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum computer :lolSmile

Quote:
Na_th_an Wrote:I ENJOY ORIGINAL ARTWORK AND STORYLINE, and, IMHO, ORIGINAL ARTWORK AND STORYLINE INCREASES A GAME'S QUALITY.

I agree with you -- but only if the original artwork and storyline are GOOD. Having original graphics and storyline is a plus if they are of high quality -- but they do not automatically make a game superior.

Yeah, you are right here. I worded it wrong, explained above Smile

Quote:Just look at how many original QB games have an entirely original tilset that absolutely sucks. SonicX is superior in every aspect -- graphics, sound, gameplay and fun factor -- to those games.

Agreed 100%. My point was that JB is only in charge of the two last aspects: gameplay and fun factor.

Quote:You can't say its graphics are worse...because they're not. They were designed by very talented professional artists who did a fantastic job. And you also can't say that this game is less fun to play...because that would be a lie. SonicX is a hell of a lot more fun than most QB platformers. I'd rather play a good clone than a bad original game any day.

And I also told that before, that the engine is superb, that it rocks, that it could be a QB milestone... 'cause that's the truth and that's what I think.

All this began I dunno way, 'cause my original claim was somewhat innocent:

"It rocks but I'd rather have original artwork".

Which is just a comment about my personal preferences.


Sonic X-treme update - aetherfox - 04-01-2005

When did I say your game was crap? In fact I've done nothing but praise it. I said that I didn't like it, and that that makes you sore shows that your are very shallow in that you can't respect an opinion if it doesn't agree with yours.

As for my knowing that what I said offended you, of course I did. Again, I apologized, but it seems us ungodly people are not worth of praise and forgiveness from someone who's sole aim in coming to this forum seemed to uphold a reputation. The fact that you said that my argument for leaving my post up is "weak," again shows your shallow personality and the fact that you can't respect what other people think if it is against your views on life.

And the bully thing. Well, my parents worked hard and sent me to a very good school, but that doesn't mean there weren't bullies. Fortunately, I am not one easily trodden on, so I was never really bullied, but I have seen a real "bully", and can safetly say that if you call this bullying (praising your work and telling you to respect my opinion), then you have serious problems.

You know something funny? People have actually contacted me about this thread and told me their thoughts. People who haven't posted here, but have just watched and made up their own minds about what happened. This thread has many views, and it's been a while since something this...umm controversial has happened here. As I've said before, posting private conversations is something I won't do again, but it's interesting to see what people think.


Sonic X-treme update - jb - 04-01-2005

Once again, I am coming out of my self enforced posting sabatical to address your comments one final time, Mr Aetherfox.

Aetherfox said:
Quote:When did I say your game was crap?
Probably about the time when you said this:
Quote:Sadly, SonicX is no way near as good as the original series.

Yes, sonicXv9 lacked enemies, it was a tad unpolished, and there were some annoying collision dectection faults. But it was a qb game that was released while it was still in the Beta stages. So what you said seems a little harsh. And yes, I am aware that you can argue that you didn't say the game was bad, but merely that it wasn't fun. But, I know that you were trying to say it was 'crap'.

About the hurtful post thing. Your argument was weak, no question. You will hurt people in your real life if you seriously think that your pre-conceived beliefs should govern how you should react to challenging situations. But I have forgiven you. I also forgive you for everything you have said about my personality, as I am sure you would take it back if you were aware of how stupid it sounds when people try to act like amatuer psychiatrists. Big Grin

Without trying to sound like a psychiatrists myself, I have to say that despite your repeated denials, I feel that you are a very angry young man. I hope that in the future you can channel your anger into more constructive pursuits. But, even if you can not, I wish you the best. I would have sent an email to send these sentiments to you personally, but I thought it would save time if I put the comments straight here Big Grin

I agree with you about this thread being controversial. This is good, as it shows the qbasic community is healthy and revitalised. It has been interesting for me, as I had no idea how many people knew about SonicX. Sure, I know my site gets hits, but when I hear that Rokkuman, for instace, has been playing my game since he was 11, it is just amazing.

I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread.


Sonic X-treme update - aetherfox - 04-01-2005

That is my opinion about your game. And just because it is no where near as good as the original series, doesn't mean it is bad. It is just not as good as the original game was. I could quote all the times I've actually praised the game, but that would be useless as again you'd rip them up and quote something else out of context.

As for the anger, well, I've already said that this hasn't angered me at all. In fact, today is one of the happiest days of my life. I still can't see how you can call anything that I've said as angry...but then again, it doesn't matter.

What is so easily forgotten is that you were originally the one wrong here, with the pretty hateful and angry things you said to na_th_an.

But the past is the past. Fuck it, I don't care.


Sonic X-treme update - jb - 04-01-2005

Aetherfox said:

Quote:What is so easily forgotten is that you were originally the one wrong here, with the pretty hateful and angry things you said to na_th_an.


I apologised to na_th_an, and had the good sense to take my comments back. And I did not reneg on an agreement. Despite the fact that your comments towards me were intentionally hurtful, and the fact that you do not seem to value your own written word, I have forgiven you. Even though I would like you to take back your comments, and you won't, I still forgive you.

Best of luck in your studies, Avinash .


Sonic X-treme update - Piptol - 04-01-2005

There's no such thing as bad publicity, jb. Your download count must be going through the roof after all this Big Grin


Sonic X-treme update - aetherfox - 04-02-2005

Well if that isn't the most sensible thing I've heard on this thread, Piptol Big Grin.

JB, again, I could keep arguing with what you've said, and you could do the same thing again and it would just keep going. I'm personally fed up and I can't be bothered to keep this crap up any longer.

Like I said, the past is the past, fuck it.


Sonic X-treme update - dimsheep - 04-02-2005

seriously guys, i got myself sum cheese & crackers for finishing this thread... very entertaining read, congratz