131 Killed in Madrid Blasts!

[1000101]

heh

Canada, Mexica, Austrailia - 'The Axis of Really Nice But Secretly Harbours Nasty Thoughts About The US'

Man theonion.com is great.

[Jark]

Hey Jark, did you even read what i wrote about your use of the word "islamic group"?

Sure, I did, Blitz.

I'm one of the rare people who have read the complete Bible, most of the Kuran, and who can also speak about the judaist approach. I also know more about buddhism that most of the occidental population.

Moses has created monotheism for local social needs. It was a defensive attitude, and it is still only a defensive attitude. Judaism makes no propaganda, it is only a closed approach that will lead to nothing, since these people have missed their initial role which was to speak about god around them. The government of Israel has also forgotten the sentence which is supposed to summarise what judaism is: "don't do to others what you wouldn't like to suffer".

The jewish people has suffered a lot, but also the tibetan people, and also the armenian people, and people from Tchetcheny (not sure about the english spelling). The sufferings of the jewish people does not provide any excuse to the behaviour of the state of Israel.

Jesus tried to inject non-violent and tolerance in this first attempt for a social unity around a religion. Some people believe he was initiated in India, and consider he did not die on the cross. Some people can show you his tumb in India. There is no serious proof about that.

His message is lost now, because the church he asked Peter to build has turned it into a criminal quest for power. I belong to those who consider that the Vatican is nothing but a sect which has a public authorisation to continue. Their huge fortune helps them a lot for this.

The catholic crusaders in the middle age, then the missionaries in south america and in asia have destroyed all the cultures they could.

I clearly fight against the catholic church as it is now, even if I continue believing in Jesus messages, and even if this church as been obliged to quit using war against their so-called "non believers".

Jesus has provided two things: his speech of tolerance and hope, and the notion of "giviing for free", which makes the beauty of his proposals.

While Islam was clearly created to build a unity between the arabian tribes, even if the "holy war" had to be used, Islam now considers this "mission" must extended to the rest of the world. For example, in Irak, the islamic law almost managed to be set in place of a true constitution. Islam considers itself as a law, and does not want any other law.

I don't believe in a god, cause all the monotheist religions were designed to prevent people from asking the true questions. They provide answers to these questions, and say "you don't need another answer".

In case someone says : "I don't believe you, or I would like to study other hypothesis", then he will be banned, or tortured, or a war will be engaged to eliminate him. That's what the catholic have done during centuries (the spanish inquisition was abolished only circa 1830), that's what Islam continues doing.

Buddhism is the only different approach, but it can be studied without considering it as a religious approach. It is made of two components: a model of universe, based on five levels of aggregates (the first level being the material one, ie what science tries to study), and ruled by a strict causality law, called the Kharma. The composition of these two concepts is called the Dharma.

The second component is based on the four "noble truths" proposed by a man called Siddharta Gautama, and which allows both being more happy, and helping for a better, non violent world.

These subjects are too complex for a simple post, but I will develop that on the Dazibao when I'm done with fractals.

Buddhism makes one hypothesis that may prevent it from being the right approach: it is designed for people who do not accept answers without arguments. Since most of the people don't care about explanations, they prefer the monotheist approach that give ready-to-use answers. Even if fear and violence is behind.

Siddharta Gautama always reminded his words must never be accepted without a deep, long, personal reflexion. That's what I've been doing for three years now.

So, Blitz, you wonder why I spoke about Islamic groups. Well, in Europe, each country has his anarchists, revolutionary groups, etc... We had Action Directe in France, the Italians had the Brigatte Rosse, the germans had Baader. They were sick, manipulated lost souls, and I'm glad they're out of order as for today.

The Basque case is really different. You must understand that these people speak a language that has no link with any other languistic family. They are, from far the strongest people I've ever met, both physically and mentally (and I'm a celtic guy, just to tell you we don't accept easily these comparisons). The old spanish regim never managed to dominate them: the memory of Guernica is still here to remind it to us.

The ETA is being disassembled by the current spanish government, a bit like the fight between the Mafia in Italy, or like the IRA in Ireland. That's why Aznar would much prefer to accuse them instead of Al Qaida: he knows that he cannot do a thing against them, and it is SCARY.

So, what's left against all that bullshit ?

Marcos in Mexico, but I'm afraid this guy is geting tired.
Free Masonry has some power, but is being dominated by this quest of power.
Buddhism is probably the right approach, but is based on a teaching hypothesis that will take ages to have results: we shall all be dead before something gets out of here...

A first, simple, not so easy thing can help: let's all try to learn more about the different points of views we may encounter. Do not judge, do not try to convince. But do your best to tell al these people that it's a loss of time and most of all useless approach to try to convert others when they do not agree with their point of view.

The solution will come from merging the opposite approaches, not from making them fight.

[adosorken]

Siddharta was amazing. I concur. And I, who has spoken out against Christianity for well over ten years, also agree with the teachings of Jesus. The "Christian" religions practiced today have NOTHING AT ALL to do with what He spoke of. It's just business as usual for these boneheads.

I've seen it written a number of times: "Religion Kills". That statement has yet to be proven wrong, and yet it is proven right countless times. This latest incident is yet another example of how religion kills. And you can say all you want about "religion doesn't kill, people kill". Well guess what? Religion gives people justification for their crimes. Or at least justification from THEIR point of view. Maybe not from ours though, but regardless, our justifications are not the same as theirs...who is right? Who is wrong? Who decides these things? Do you see why people must turn to a "higher power"? They have no answers, and they think that a "higher power" MUST hold the answers they seek. Then in what I can only call a state of delusion, their invisible "higher power" gives them a sign! Yes! You must go kill the non-believers! (probably brought on by peyote but that's just theory).

It's all BS. Every last drop of it. My gods and goddesses do not speak to me. In fact, I do not look to them for the answers, because I know they do not exist in the physical or even metaphysical sense...they are concepts, ideas, inspirational stories. I am not going to go on a killing spree because I think Lord and Lady Leviathan *might* have told me to go slay a bunch of "innocent" Christians. Anyone who looks to a "higher power" for the answers will never find it, because the answer is inside of you.

[Blitz]

Dude, i have to read the bible, and some of the koran and a bit of buddishm. I am not at all religious. I don't think i even belive in a god. But what you're saying is wrong, most religions started good, peaceful and based on understanding and tolerance. Even islam, but the message got lost pretty quick. This is true for all major religions. But nothing in islam says it is ok to kill another human. It says that it is ok to defened your life and your familys life if its being threatend. And in doing so you will end up in heaven. I belive pretty much most religions says that as well. So don't call terrorist islamic groups, islam has nothing to do with mass murder. That's where the problem is, labeling people. That creates hate. There's a french guy in a crappy reality show called big brother here. He is reall stupid, lived here most his life and still cant speak or understand swedish. And he hit a girl too, so, i guess all french speaking people are stupid women hitters?

[Jark]

If you study the origin of Islam (I mean, the historical part of the life of Mohamed), you will see that the Prophet himself has built his religion in a war situation... That is what is called Jihad, the holy war.

I don't say that to create hate: I wish all the muslims were like the main part of them: people who want to live in peace.

As for the rest, I agree with you, Blitz: no religion starts in violence.

Another thing: the only religion that says killing to defend yourself and your family is the US consitution :wink:

The Bible says : you shall not kill. Full point. Buddhism has NEVER killed.

[Agamemnus]

Yes, that's right.

MOHAMMED and later his followers KILLED PEOPLE to gain conversions!

[Jark]

What would be really interesting : is there anybody here, belonging to a muslim community, to confirm that these acts are horrible also for the muslim community ? Or anyone to speak about the hundred thousands of people murdered in Rwanda without anybody to care about them ?

I think this would help us a lot...

[Agamemnus]

I wanted to find some more concrete info on the start of Islam, and this looks like a good source:

http://wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/moslem.htm

[Jark]

Excellent page, Aga, excellent page... The website itself deserves a detailed reading. Of course, like everything on the web, I will read it with prudence, but it's worth spending time on it. Glad to see that there are people in the US that know what separating church and state means: three countries only did in in Europe, France, Portugal and Turkey.

Though I cannot believe in a god, I do not reject spiritual approaches that can provide something smoother than pure atheism. Tao and buddhism are the two major alternatives I study a lot (I do not consider buddhism as a religion, to be clear).

The webmaster of the following site has left a post on my guestbook, a few days after the opening: think these people know who I am now: http://www.allaboutgod.com

You can browse it a little, Aga, you will probably find it scary :barf:

[Agamemnus]

Yes, I do. But it's not that scary..

This is one of the scary aspects:

http://www.creation-vs-evolution.com/