Opinion on war?

[toonski84]

look, agamemnus, i'm not trying to change your stance on the war or anything. to be honest, there is nothing you and i can do except watch it on cnn. but dont look at things so black and white. there has never been a war fought on usa oil for nearly 150 years, so your or i might not understand, but atrocities, sick, horrible things happen in war. a LOT. you can ignore them as easily as you can click off a tv or click x on a window, but they happen. you can support the war, it's a free internet, but try to consider what's happening on the other side.

i guess this guy can say it better than i can. i guess they have something called "communication skills" wherever he's from.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/889519.asp?cp1=1

[Jocke The Beast]

horrible things happen in war

I agree with you here, Joe. There's no black & white.
I support the war but I realize that this war (like every war) have negative effects. Innocent people always gets hurt in a modern war (the wars back in 1000-1600 AD didn't hurt the innocent citizens in the way wars today do) and that's never good. But sometimes the goal of a war is so important that we must allow thoose negative effects (even if we all pray to God that the coaltion's attacks and strategy is as safe as possible for civilianz) to take place. If we don't, more innocent victims will die and the world will be more un-safe (with Saddam and his goverment ruling).

[Agamemnus]

no, toonski, you're wrong. And that's not what I meant.

I am not denying those tapes were real but denying that it is a fact they were US missiles, and especially 5 of them.

Irak still has Surface-to-surface missiles and those may have attacked the market.

It's not an impossibility that Irak's troops would have done such a thing.

The US says that Iraki irregulars are dressing up in US / British soldier clothing, accepting surrenders, and then executing people.

Irak's irregulars and Republican Guard are using fake surrenders to kill and capture American soldiers.

Irak is situating its soldiers, weapons, and anti-tank/anti-air/anti-personell installations near civilian buildings.

Irak has put mines into the harbors of the port cities. I saw one on TV. It was round and looked 4-5 feet in diameter.

The US deliberately did not go into cities where there is resistance because they don't want to kill innocent people accidentally.

To me there is an obvious black and white here. Sure, the US may make mistakes (and not deliberate ones too-- Irak may also have used jamming equipment, 6 installations of which were blown up according to Centcom..)

but

the US is morally right concerning both the strategy to minimize both coalition soldiers and Iraki civilian and surrendering Iraki military lives (and therefore EXTEND the war, the cost, and inflame stupid idiotic people who think the war is going bad!)

There.

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this just and right war is even close to being a gray area. It is good for Irak and good for the world.

Examples of idiots:

1) Iraki living in Jordan who is going back to Irak to fight coalition soldiers, allegedly:
"Yeah, I was against Saddam b4 the war but now I will go to fight the Americans as well b/c they invaded Irak."

2) Pope John Paul II: This war is lik' totally gonna destroy the world.

3) Igor Ivanov: Stop the war ; we haven't sold anything to Irak (nor any of our private companies);

MOSCOW (March 26) - Reflecting a new chill between Moscow and Washington, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov accused the United States on Wednesday of trying to destroy Iraq and waging what he dubbed an information war against Russia.

-AP, Vladimir Isachenkov

Now Saddam Hussein isn't an idiot. He's managed to get about half the civilized world, indeed the people he's opressed for dozens of years, to support him against the infidels and murderers that the coalition and Mr. Bush is.

[toonski84]

i dont have anything to say to that. silly quoting and pointing fingers is not going anywhere. i've expressed my opinion, and it still stands, amist what you've thrown at it. ohers have expressed valid opinions as well, including yourself, but it's turning into repetitions and unsupported refutes. i'm going to stop posting in this topic. i'm tired of this, i'm tired of this "war", and i'm tired of the politics wrapped up in this.

[wizardlife]

Whether it's a helpful discussion going on in here or not, the fact is that an awful lot of what's going on in the media is both propaganda (from both sides) and a lot of mudslinging and mockery in the place of debate.

As such, we have nothing to work with. Based on the images of CNN, the war is perfectly justified and underway, but Al-Jazeera shows the starving Iraqi children with their arms blown off, which looks atrocious

I was reminded of the media slant again today by the way two Toronto newspapers dealt with the issue of the US ambassador to Canada's speech. The National Post said that the US had lost faith in Canada and the article pointed to them screwing us in border-trading and stuff, whereas the Star's approach was that the Canadian position still held strong, in spite of US opposition.

[Agamemnus]

the US is gonna screw everyone who disagrees with it... Canada, Russia, France, Germany, China, Saudi Arabia... To be neutral is to be apathetic, someone said. And it's true.

Now you can't really say that Al Jazeera has the same amount of credibility as the US. Why? Simply BECAUSE they report all this crap and they don't EXPLAIN the relatively miniscule amount of US casualties... they don't EXPLAIN that (my estimate) 87% of Irak is under US/Kurdish control.

When US media shows some sort of conference of the lying Iraqi government pigs, it is obvious by the sheer contradiction with the facts (that are before and after shown as well)
Al Jazeera doesn't look like it's showing the centcom briefings and it doesn't HAVE ANALYSIS. IT HAS BLOODY BABIES.

[_Bill_]

About the so-called US strike on a village/marketplace. That is total bull****. It is the Iraquies falt. They have Russian made GPS jammers. And guess what some US missiles use for guideance? C'mon guess. They use a GPS system so when the Iraqis use them the missiles loose track of where they are and where they're supposed to go. And I wouldn't say that the Iraqi 'soldiers' can be called soldiers. Real soldiers don't use civilians as human shields or intentially use civil buildings so when they get killed the people they are trying to protect get killed as well.

[wildcard]

Please don't make me have to lock this thread. Think before you post and especially before you make stupid insults at anyone else. And remember news is almost always going to be slanted one way or the other.

[red_Marvin]

In a war there can not be a good nor a bad side.
You can agree with one or another side,
but civilians are being killed by one side or another
anyway.

When we have a war where no civilians are killed, the prisoners
of war ar treated like humans then my opinion might change, but how do I know it's real and what have they not shown to me?

I rest my case.

[na_th_an]

Yeah, the problem is, like I said, that Americans haven't suffered a war since Civil war in the XIX century. They don't know about starvation, diseases, poorness, mutilated children, cancer and the like. WW and WWII were in Europe and Pacific Ocean. They only have suffered two important attacks: Perl Harbour and WTC. It is easy to state things when you don't know about them. You are making all those people suffer.

And the worst part is that the USA has more and more enemies each day. USA, the UK and my government (I refuse to say "Spain") are breaking the dellicate world peace order.

This time, I prefer being called an ex-panish rather than Spanish.