Godless

[moochthemonkey]

and LMFAO at religious people trying to use logic and science to prove their religion. religion =/= science, you believe in your God through faith not by logical reasoning.

[Polter]

and LMFAO at religious people trying to use logic and science to prove their religion. religion =/= science, you believe in your God through faith not by logical reasoning.

It depends upon the person if what is his/her orientation about religion. But for me, religion is a matter of faith and believing, not to be proven logically, mathematically, or scientifically...

Science is just the explanation of the physical things...
Religion is to the unseen and to the spiritual aspect...

Again, it depends upon the person itself....

[Dio]

and somewhere out there, there might be a blue blade of grass. but let's be honest.

if you respect others beliefs because you know it won't matter how much evidence you throw at them, it won't make a bit a difference because they already made their mind up. then yeah, don't bother. there is always two (or more) ways to interpret information. so yeah.

[na_th_an]

Example: Creationists. They shouldn't be allowed. There are creationist schools full of creationist teachers who teach lies to children. That's plainly wrong.

do you mean Catholic Schools or other schools like that? cuz people (specifically of that religon) sign up for those schools knowing what's at hand. I don't see what's wrong with that. you're not allowed to teach religious theories and preach deism at regular public schools, but you're allowed to teach evolution, which is okay, because it's science.

I've studied in a non religious School but with Catholic teachers and they taught me the Evolutionary THEORY. Even my religious religion teacher (he was a priest) taught us about how the creation described in Genesis was an allegory, a myth.

Please everyone who's gonna argue against evolution, please please DO READ THE MEANING OF THEORY.

To me it's wrong to teach as the truth something that can't be proved, and even worse, something that has been proved false. It's not wrong, though', to teach different theories and how they can be true or wrong.

It's the same debate as ever. "You believe in science", fucking NO! Science is not to be believed, but understood. It doesn't state anything you can't prove yourself.

I don't see what's wrong with that.

I do. It's plainly wrong:

1.- They are forming new people. What they get is a new bunch of brainwashed people who will lose all their ability to reason. From now on, those people will never question ANYTHING. I've met this kind of people lots of times. It's awesome how brainwashed they are that when you push them to the limits of a reasoning and they can't defend their position anymore, they still can't accept the evidence, so they get nervous, angry, evasive or simply leave.

2.- They are teaching simply something that's false. It's like if I created a school where I taught that we come from the Smurfs and that birds fly using farts - and that concerned parents sent their sons and daughters there. Scary.

3.- Just because that's religion doesn't mean it should be respected. For example those people who cut the external vaginal labia and clitoris of girls so they can't feel any pleasure with sexual relations. Why? RELIGION. Is that fine? Should we respect EVERYTHING just 'cause we should respect beliefs? I DON'T think so.

Btw, again nice non-religious discussion about religion :lol:

[Polter]

and somewhere out there, there might be a blue blade of grass. but let's be honest.

if you respect others beliefs because you know it won't matter how much evidence you throw at them, it won't make a bit a difference because they already made their mind up. then yeah, don't bother. there is always two (or more) ways to interpret information. so yeah.

moochthemonkey wrote:
na_th_an wrote:

Example: Creationists. They shouldn't be allowed. There are creationist schools full of creationist teachers who teach lies to children. That's plainly wrong.


do you mean Catholic Schools or other schools like that? cuz people (specifically of that religon) sign up for those schools knowing what's at hand. I don't see what's wrong with that. you're not allowed to teach religious theories and preach deism at regular public schools, but you're allowed to teach evolution, which is okay, because it's science.


I've studied in a non religious School but with Catholic teachers and they taught me the Evolutionary THEORY. Even my religious religion teacher (he was a priest) taught us about how the creation described in Genesis was an allegory, a myth.

Please everyone who's gonna argue against evolution, please please DO READ THE MEANING OF THEORY.

To me it's wrong to teach as the truth something that can't be proved, and even worse, something that has been proved false. It's not wrong, though', to teach different theories and how they can be true or wrong.

It's the same debate as ever. "You believe in science", fucking NO! Science is not to be believed, but understood. It doesn't state anything you can't prove yourself.

Quote:
I don't see what's wrong with that.


I do. It's plainly wrong:

1.- They are forming new people. What they get is a new bunch of brainwashed people who will lose all their ability to reason. From now on, those people will never question ANYTHING. I've met this kind of people lots of times. It's awesome how brainwashed they are that when you push them to the limits of a reasoning and they can't defend their position anymore, they still can't accept the evidence, so they get nervous, angry, evasive or simply leave.

2.- They are teaching simply something that's false. It's like if I created a school where I taught that we come from the Smurfs and that birds fly using farts - and that concerned parents sent their sons and daughters there. Scary.

3.- Just because that's religion doesn't mean it should be respected. For example those people who cut the external vaginal labia and clitoris of girls so they can't feel any pleasure with sexual relations. Why? RELIGION. Is that fine? Should we respect EVERYTHING just 'cause we should respect beliefs? I DON'T think so.

i think we should respect someone/somebody's faith...
yeah I admit, i am solid to and defending my religion, but religion is way of other people for refuge, like the superheroes in the sketchbook of a newspapers cartoonist...

we dont know what's inside the heads of other people why they believe their faith... it still depedns upon the person himself if what to stick on or hold on...

Btw, again nice non-religious discussion about religion :lol:

yeah... This is as good as a healthy conversation..
EXERCISE!!!

[SSC]

I don't see what's wrong with that.

I do. It's plainly wrong:

1.- They are forming new people. What they get is a new bunch of brainwashed people who will lose all their ability to reason. From now on, those people will never question ANYTHING. I've met this kind of people lots of times. It's awesome how brainwashed they are that when you push them to the limits of a reasoning and they can't defend their position anymore, they still can't accept the evidence, so they get nervous, angry, evasive or simply leave.

2.- They are teaching simply something that's false. It's like if I created a school where I taught that we come from the Smurfs and that birds fly using farts - and that concerned parents sent their sons and daughters there. Scary.

3.- Just because that's religion doesn't mean it should be respected. For example those people who cut the external vaginal labia and clitoris of girls so they can't feel any pleasure with sexual relations. Why? RELIGION. Is that fine? Should we respect EVERYTHING just 'cause we should respect beliefs? I DON'T think so.

Btw, again nice non-religious discussion about religion :lol:

I strongly agree with #1, children will believe what they are taught and what they discover for themselves only. If they are taught from day 1 that god exists then they will most likely never believe otherwise even if they have nothing to back it up.

As for #3, you are taking an extreme position, of course not all religious acts are accepted by the average person. For example human sacrifices and such. But the majority of the worlds religions are not so extreme. Assuming that the acts and ideas are ethical and/or not thought of as criminal, then accepting that they have those beliefs should not be a difficult thing, even if you know they are wrong.

[na_th_an]

To me, teaching about the earth being plain or about the world being created in six days 6,000 ago is as wrong. You are forming new people on a lie. My point was "Do you have to respect something just for the sake of being part of a culture or religion?" Of course not. I just threw in an extreme example of what I meant.

There are other things that I don't practice but I respect. For example not eating pork, or voluntary fasting, or celibate, or voluntary reclusion to meditate, or long reflexion/praying time, etcetera. Those activities are part of cultures and religions and they are quite respectable 'cause they don't cause any harm. Teaching the wrong things to children and brainwashing them, making them unable to think for themselves is plainly wrong and very harmful.

[SSC]

Brainwashing is simply making someone belive what you want them to belive. So in a sense all teaching is brainwashing, the way people should be tought about religion is they should be given the material for all religions and exposed to every thing, allowing them to make up thier own minds. But the way it is, the parents choose what religion their kids will be. If your parents were satan worshippers for example you would (most likey) be one too. But the thing is, the people that are teaching children these things belive what they are teahcing them and are right in their own minds, even if you disagree.

The problem with your argument is that anything that you don't agree with is wrong to teach to children, even if you can respect it, it's still wrong to teach children those things. So unless I misunderstood you then I disagree :wink:

[Dio]

Brainwashing is simply making someone belive what you want them to belive. So in a sense all teaching is brainwashing

almost. teaching science encourages seeking out answers. religion enforces beliefs on blind faith. Dis-encourges having a curiosity. just like a cult. therefore it is brainwashing.

the way people should be taught about religion is they should be given the material for all religions and exposed to every thing, allowing them to make up their own minds.

we'd all be atheist.

[Anonymous]

I dunno, I've had exposure to lotf of different religions (through study) and still I believe "God" may exist on one level or another, maybe not percievable on this puny physical plane but fuck; we can't even figure out things like the halting problem, and you're going to tell me that we can definitely tell whether or not there's a god? Meh.