I think there is a little bit of confusion here about cold war. Let's try to explain it:
1.- Nazis were the leading party in Germany from 1933 to 1945. Fascists. Nowadays it has to do with the Right wing.
2.- In the USSR (Rusia and the rest of the states) they were communists. Nowadays it has to do with the Left wing.
3.- USSR fought Germany in the WW II.
I needed to clarify this 'cause "fascist Nazi Russian dogs" is the biggest nonsense I've read in years. Now some facts:
1.- Unlike most of americans think, people in the USSR weren't crazy people who aimed to destroy the world. They were just like the USA: They wanted to have the millitar, economical and political supremacy over the world. In this aspect, USSR = USA, but with completely oposed economic systems (mangled communism vs. leeching capitalism) and concept of freedom (hidden dictatorship vs. democracy).
2.- In the cold war, all the world was in danger 'cause of the two big powers, not just 'cause of the USSR. USA also had nukes pointed to our asses, as well as USSR had. To me, all the nukes explode the same way, no matter if they are red or have nice white stripes.
3.- If you really think they "[...] would have nuked most of the rest of the world just for fun" you should learn to see things in perspective. There is something wrong with the general conception about the world matters. It is not so simple. Don't consider it as another G.I.Joe episode!
Russia fought with us in WWII, but it wasnt as pretty as you'd think. Stalin had his own agenda for the war, and so did we. By 1945 we'd broken off with Russia, and on his deathbed Roosevelt recognized that he'd be a postwar menace. Churchill never trusted the man.
But Nate makes a good point. After Stalin's death 5 years after they got the bomb, Kruschev came to power in a sort of power struggle. He actually denounced Stalin's cruelty (though he crushed any and all resistence), and wanted to make peace with the US. Talks were going fine until the U2 incident, and were further deterred by how little he respected JFK as a leader.
Quote:I think there is a little bit of confusion here about cold war. Let's try to explain it:
1.- Nazis were the leading party in Germany from 1933 to 1945. Fascists. Nowadays it has to do with the Right wing.
2.- In the USSR (Rusia and the rest of the states) they were communists. Nowadays it has to do with the Left wing.
3.- USSR fought Germany in the WW II.
I needed to clarify this 'cause "fascist Nazi Russian dogs" is the biggest nonsense I've read in years. Now some facts:
1.- Unlike most of americans think, people in the USSR weren't crazy people who aimed to destroy the world. They were just like the USA: They wanted to have the millitar, economical and political supremacy over the world. In this aspect, USSR = USA, but with completely oposed economic systems (mangled communism vs. leeching capitalism) and concept of freedom (hidden dictatorship vs. democracy).
2.- In the cold war, all the world was in danger 'cause of the two big powers, not just 'cause of the USSR. USA also had nukes pointed to our asses, as well as USSR had. To me, all the nukes explode the same way, no matter if they are red or have nice white stripes.
3.- If you really think they "[...] would have nuked most of the rest of the world just for fun" you should learn to see things in perspective. There is something wrong with the general conception about the world matters. It is not so simple. Don't consider it as another G.I.Joe episode!
You are so correct. The USSR saved everybody's butt in WWII. Show some respect for them people. AFAIAC USSR sheltered us from western political and more importantly military pressure :???: during 1940-1980s.
Quote:RST Wrote:WMD - the sole original reason put fouth by the American goverment for invasion
Not true.
Very true. You're just eating up the Bush propaganda like candy, which is EXACTLY what they wanted.
Quote:Rhiannon Wrote:funny how Iraq became a "threat" when Bush came into power. The 8 years that Clinton was in power, nothing was said about Iraq.
Again, not true.
Were you even sentient during the Clinton years? Iraq never entered the picture on a grand scale. I challenge you to prove me wrong.
Quote:It seems that the only people I argue with on these people don't get all their facts straight, just part of them.
The only fact being displayed here with overwhelming proof is the fact that you've been sold out. Also, you've yet to provide ANY solid proof to back up your claims. You're just yelling at people, saying they don't know this and they don't know that, when all in the know have provided heaps upon heaps of documented proof of their arguments. Kindly remove your head from GWB's posterior, if you know what I mean, and start looking for and listening to the truth.
Unless you ENJOY living in delusion?
one of my friends is in the military (didnt get shipped out fortunately) and he made it very clear to me what the war was about "Free Iraq, kill Saddam Hussian, install democracy, find WMD, fight terrorism, protect our freedom" (this is no particular order)
So, let's see, so far Iraq doesnt seem very free to me when it's crawling with soldiers, i doubt we killed the sucker, democracy is prolly still a dream, where are the WMD, what terrorism, why do we need to protect our freedom when we werent being attacked in the first place?
This is just another Bush taking America to war, and it's backfiring on him now becuz his polls suck.
Na_th_an, I was (unsuccesfully) trying to make fun of SJ Zero's confusion about Communism and fascism.
Nek, what about 1998? Rhiannon, Nek, I have nothing more to say to you.
Quote:Nek, what about 1998? Rhiannon, Nek, I have nothing more to say to you.
Operation Desert Fox was a recon job at the request of Britain and Saudi Arabia to stop Iraq's transfer of missles. The US was involved for a mere 70 hours. How does that relate to what Bush is doing right now? Not to mention the fact that this never even hit major television circuits (if it had, I would have heard about it). The world was still fixated on Clinton's love life.
Nothing more to say? Perhaps because you can't win the debate and you know it? Hrm...no surprise.
another note about 1998 is that they acutally *found* the weapons, and we massively bombed the proper facilities using good intelligence with the world's support, quickly, quietly. It's called foreign politics done right.
Quote:another note about 1998 is that they acutally *found* the weapons, and we massively bombed the proper facilities using good intelligence with the world's support, quickly, quietly. It's called foreign politics done right.
so i wonder what GWB is looking for now? :lol:
It's not *that* bad. I think what happened is he had the agenda to attack Iraq after 9/11 (see: memos), and he really did think Saddam had bio. weapons or something, used it as the reason, and when it was confirmed he didn't he couldnt back down for political reasons. It's something you could expect of a politician, them being the scum of the earth.
However, we really are screwed there. The announcement was made that there will be over 100,000 troops in Iraq until 2006, compared to 130,000 now. We lose 20-30 soldiers a month on average, over 70 this month. Those arent going to be good stats at the end of this, not even counting civilian losses. We can't leave until Iraq is stable...