tcpa

[Bluffer]

Yeaa they try to take control of ever thing I live in the middle of nowhere I raised fighting Kelso's for years I was told recently that I can't raise or keep them here..
Now I added 20 to the coup....
I get tired of holly farms wanting to buy out the little guy and stop little chicken farmers from raising their own food,.
What they going to do eat Kelso's.
or the end of the double barrell
Goverment needs to shrink...... Along with companies that try to rule the world.... :evil: :evil:

[Rhiannon]

This is a Good Thing, IMHO.
They aren't going to bother with people getting stuff illegally off Kazaa or just doing smalltime hacking of a convienience store's website. They'll be catching child pornographers and possibly terrorists.
What's wrong with that?

The problem is that it is being done at the expense and freedom of everyone else, first of all. Secondly it isnt going to stop it. There are many ways to distribute child porn besides the internet. Child porn has existed long before the Internet. Terrorism has existed even longer. You honestly think the tcpa is going to stop it? That's not their aim at all. It's all about the almighty $.

[Sterling Christensen]

QB is a non-TC program, thus it's insecure.
The new Word is a TC app, thus secure.

There is NO WAY POSSIBLE to run both at the same time.

I asked about this too - also a myth.

My emails:

If the program or application makes calls to the nexus, then it is
taking advantage of the new functionality and running, at least in part,
in "trusted mode." If not, then it is running in standard mode and
nothing changes.

The user doesn't change "modes" per se; the user can decide whether to
enable NGSCB at all. If enabled on a machine, the experience to the
user is simply that they are able to do what they're trying to do--they
don't have to flip any switches.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sterling Christensen [mailto:sterlingchristensen [at] hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 2:58 PM
To: Palladium Q&A



What are the critieria that determine if a program is "trusted" or not?
Will people have to switch to "untrusted mode" in order to run my programs?




>From: "Palladium Q&A" <pdinfo@microsoft.com>
>To: "Sterling Christensen" <sterlingchristensen [at] hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: 2 questions about Palladium
>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:26:13 -0700
>
>Thank you for writing.
>
>1. Developing software to run on Windows PCs with the next generation
>secure computing base (formerly code-named Palladium) will be the same
>as developing software today: there will be documented APIs and
>software development kits. TCPA has nothing to do with certifying
>software to run in a Windows environment.
>
>2. Using NGSCB does not in any way require an internet connection, and
>the notion of having to check to see if the user is running "certified
>software" is also false. NGSCB simply doesn't work that way.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sterling Christensen [mailto:sterlingchristensen [at] hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 4:17 AM
>To: Palladium Q&A
>
>
>
>1. How will Palladium affect casual, hobbiest, non-commercial software
>developers (like myself)?
>
>I've read stuff about Palladium that makes it sound like developers will
>
>have to pay a fee to get their software certified with the TCPA before it
>will run on Palladium enhanced computers. I like to write programs and
>exchange them with other programmers online, and I probably couldn't
>afford to pay to get them certified!
>
>2. I've also read that a Palladium enhanced computer will need to
>connect to a remote server to make sure the user is running certified
>software...
>what if the user doesn't have an internet connection?
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
>

[Zack]

This is a Good Thing, IMHO.
They aren't going to bother with people getting stuff illegally off Kazaa or just doing smalltime hacking of a convienience store's website. They'll be catching child pornographers and possibly terrorists.
What's wrong with that?

The problem is that it is being done at the expense and freedom of everyone else, first of all. Secondly it isnt going to stop it. There are many ways to distribute child porn besides the internet. Child porn has existed long before the Internet. Terrorism has existed even longer. You honestly think the tcpa is going to stop it? That's not their aim at all. It's all about the almighty $.

Don't worry, I've seen the light. :wink:

[Z!re]

>1. Developing software to run on Windows PCs with the next generation
>secure computing base (formerly code-named Palladium) will be the same
>as developing software today: there will be documented APIs and
>software development kits. TCPA has nothing to do with certifying
>software to run in a Windows environment.

Ofcourse not, Developing in Windows will be free, VERY VERY free, as long as you make it TCP compliant.

Do you really think that MS will allow for Linux developers to take advantage of TC?

And ofcourse it will be free, at first. As I said, it's an age old market strategy.

Let's take hamburgers, how many of you buy hamburger at per say, MC Donalds (an examples, please don't come crying: I NEVER buy hamburgers) buying a $3 hamburger is a lot more expensive than buying the ingredients and making it yourself, yet people do it, simply because: Hamburgers are good, you like hamburgers.

Software is good, you like MS software. But it would be cheaper to buy it from another source, do you think MS would allow that?

The problem with software is that you can't keep customers, there is no safe way to generate money without constantly making new releases and new programs.

With TC MS can simple just develop a software and make everyone dependant on it, thus constant money flow.

Also, TC enabled pin-point tracking of individuals, I don't want that power in the hands of a company, you don't let the goverment track you 24/7, why should you let a company (only out for profit i might add) do it?

MS might not do either one of thoose things, but the power that they CAN do it if they want is enough for me.


I just saw a documentary on Netional Geographics about the new ways to fight crime, by using cameras and voice recognition. They took up the issue with cameras in public areas and privacy.

It is illegal to put a camera pointed at a public place, why? Privacy. Noone wants to be filmed while strolling in the park, or taking a bath at the beach. If you like that, then go ahead, put a webcam up and stream it onto a website 24/7, I would watch it, heck I would even record everything, so that I at any time could replay your life.

TC is a good thing, the things that it CAN do is not. I will never let a company have the kind of power TC woule give them.

And who should have the right to blacklist users? Who will decide what software is "safe" (Did you notice they didn't answer that question)

If it's just a call to the "Nexus" then it can be overridden.

TC works by connecting to a clock to get the current time, it then generates a 2048bit encrypted key based on various information such as: time, location machine specs aso. Everything you then write and save is earmarked with this key.

So this post could be specificaly traced back to me (note COULD, not saying they will do it) and if let's say MS (just an example) don't like what I write they simply blacklist me, I no longer exist on the internet. Because your TC computer sees everything from my computer as "unsafe" and refuse to load it.

This is what CAN be done, not what WILL happen.
If you knew a car COULD suddenly explode, would you put your family in it?


Also, do you think MS Windows (the new one whatever they decide to call it) will run on my machine, I built it myself with parts from small companies, none of which are involved in TC.

There IS a cost to join TCP (Trusted Computing Group) and it's $7'000 per year or $50'000 for 10 years (If I don't remember incorrectly, gah, must find the link to the TC homepage, it seems to be down... wonder why...)

If you do not have this "license" then you'r products will be listed as "unsafe"


I do hope you don't buy the horespoo about TC not connecting to the internet, and only beeing an addon to the processor. That would be as usefull as.. err.. it wouldn't be usefull at all..

If a program is safe by calling certaion things then why can't I make my software safe? Then distribute it to terrorists/hackers/pirateers/child pornographers, I mean, whats there to stop me?

-M$ Spokesman: "Ohh yeah, I forgott, TC connects to the internet to get a blacklist.. gee.. you meant that?... I didn't understand your question... *nervous* he.. he... he... "

-Me "*shouts at mouse and keyboard (non-ms ofcourse)* KILL! KILL!"
*mouse and keyboard instantly attack m$-spokesman typing and clicking him to death*
-Me "*insane laugh* MUAHAHAHAHHWAHWWHAAWHWA"

[Sterling Christensen]

Just so you know, that's the MS representative, not me, that you're quoting there.

I think that ActiveX shows MS's tendancy to think only about the positive side of what a new feature will make possible. They don't consider how the feature might be abused, or in what ways they need to protect end users from abuse.

But it's going to be nearly impossible to fight TCPA if we're all so misinformed that we sound like paranoid conspiracy theorists. We need to voice our concerns in the form of constructive criticism that people will take seriously.

And I don't think againsttcpa.com measures up to that. What we need is a groktcpa.net, kinda like groklaw.net, only for TCPA instead of SCO. Based on logic and info, not outrage, fear, and speculation.

[Rhiannon]

this is along the lines of "The Patriot Acts protects the freedom of American citizens." :roll:

[Agamemnus]

Blah blah blah, hamburgers here are 99 cents.

[LooseCaboose]

The Against TCPA website is full of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt). For example:

The long term result will be that it will be impossible to use hardware and software that's not approved by the TCPA. Presumably there will be high costs to get this certification and that these would be too much for little and mid-range companies.

This is speculation, there is no proof to say that certification will only be available at high cost that is out of the range of all but the largest software developers.

TCPA, Palladium and DRM are all separate projects. Palladium is Microsoft's trusted computing project and its goals are far more restricted than TCPA's aims.

Do you really think that MS will allow for Linux developers to take advantage of TC?

Microsoft isn't the sole administrator of TCPA, many companies are now involved, so this isn't up to Microsoft. TCPA provides open industry standards, see here. IBM is a major supporter of both TCPA and Linux, and have even released Linux drivers for one of the available TCPA chips, you can read about it and even download the source here. That page also has a couple of papers describing what TCPA's goals and uses are and another debunking some of the major myths surrounding TCPA. One major point is that the TCPA chips do not implement DRM, nor are they well suited to implementing DRM with, although the Against TCPA FAQ will have you believe otherwise.

Im not saying that I am for or against TCPA, but don't make it out to be something it isn't. TCPA will not make Windows the only legal operating system, it will not make open sourced software impossible and it will not stop small companies and independant developers from developing software.

[Z!re]

AgainstTCPA.com isn't all that great, I agree. But I do get my facts from the official TCP site as well (well, not now as I have lost the link, gargh)

Palladium is the new OS by MS, it will be TC compliant. (They have changed name, palladium got in bad water with some people arguing about what I said. Total control and such)

Sure there is no proof that the certificate will only be available at high prizes, and MS isn't the sole ompany involved. But fact remains MS IS the largest supporter for this (Other companies are IBM, AMD and such)

And you all know how MS (SCO) act towards Linux/Open source.


MS (And the rest) is required by law to release the source for all security software (as can log user details and such) so MS/rest releasing the source is not out of free will.

I'm still not sayig that this is anything at all, MS might just be out to create a safer world for eveyonr, for free.

But I hardly doubt it.


As I said, it's not the thought that this WILL happen the way I say, it's the thought that it CAN happen.

The exploding car being an excelent example, you do not put your family in a car you know can explode. Do you?



Aga: I'm sure there are more expensive hamburgers :lol: ... here we have them in the range 99c - $4