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[oracle]

I getcha But nowdays, with war being such a remote thing (only a few casualties in both gulf wars compared with both world wars, even accounting for battle area differences), and with soldiers being such a professional lot these days, I don't think that there would be too much praying going on, cos if you wasted time you'd get shot

[relsoft]

I gotta agree with Rel, but as a Psychology minor, Freud's about as scientific as PT Barnum. Piaget's also received a bit of flak over the concreteness of his stages.

PT barnum the circus guy? Awww.... I bet Freud is is turning in his grave right now. :*)

[toonski84]

No, Freud's letting his id be supressed by his superego while he feels sorry for his wife, who in the coffin over is raging from penis envy.

Most of the man's theory's have been debunked. There's been some recent revelations into the concept of raw aggressive energy in dreams, but for the most part Freud is something of a self-believing quack. He was the first of his kind so props to him, but in the past century we've gotten smarter.

[terrythebest2003]

I have an interesting question for all you atheists out there; what did you say on Sept. 11, or whenever some great tradgedy came along in your life? A normal person would have said "Oh, my GOD!", but in your case it would be "All my random probability" or something like that. You can say that there is no God, but science has proved time and time again that the bible, and everything that it says is reliable and true. For example; if you don't beleive me, search online and find out for yourselves. Without God, life just doesn't make sense. Why would man exist if it wasn't for the glory of the almighty God? I mean, why would I be sitting here, typing this "politicaly incorrect" thing up and telling you of an all-powerful force (actually person), that you can have a personal relationship with? God is real.

[Piptol]

Personally, I don't care what anyone else believes, and will allow anyone else to choose whatever belief system they feel is appropriate, providing they respect my right to the same choice and atheism is as valid a choice as any other. It really gets my goat when people try to impose their beliefs on others - like toonski pointed out, it just aint gonna happen. So don't give us that 'science has proved god..' stuff cos I just don't buy it (as for me science and god are incompatible). I also resent your implication that people who don't believe in god 'are not normal'.

My own take is this: I'll find my own answers, discover my own truths, and not allow anybody else to tell me what I should or should not believe/think/feel. I'm finding life makes a whole lot more sense this way.

And in answer to your question, I think I said 'SH*T!!'

[oracle]

I have an interesting question for all you atheists out there; what did you say on Sept. 11, or whenever some great tradgedy came along in your life? A normal person would have said "Oh, my GOD!", but in your case it would be "All my random probability" or something like that. You can say that there is no God, but science has proved time and time again that the bible, and everything that it says is reliable and true. For example; if you don't beleive me, search online and find out for yourselves. Without God, life just doesn't make sense. Why would man exist if it wasn't for the glory of the almighty God? I mean, why would I be sitting here, typing this "politicaly incorrect" thing up and telling you of an all-powerful force (actually person), that you can have a personal relationship with? God is real.

"Oh my GOD!" is actually just a saying these days. It's actually considered blasphemy by religeous people, and if you said that on sep 11 you'll be going to hell with me :lol:

What I actually said was "....... eh?". Don't forget that not everyone in the world comes from the US, and we're not as moved by that sorta stuff as you are.

And your example sucks. You know as well as I do that you shouldn't trust an "intelligent" thing if you can't see its brain. I don't trust very much of what I see on the internet, because anyone can write anything they like and others will believe them if naive enough. And this applys especially to the "god is GOD" sites, which are little more than whips for christian or other religeons.

As far as I'm concerned, man doesn't exist because of "the glory of god", because, in relation to my previous post, there isn't any evidence. Just because "god is glorious" that doesn't mean that I exist, anymore than a "gut feeling" means that you're gonna pick the correct answer to a question in an exam.

Why would you be typing "politically incorect" stuff to me saying that god is real? Not because god exists, but because you think god exists, and you have seen, in your own mind, enough evidence to prove it to yourself. That won't sway a jury, even in God Fearing USA, let alone me, sitting at a computer 12,000 miles away. Toonski's point pops up again: you just tried to convert me. And I say no. So don't tell me god is real any more, prove it.

pip: I totally agree with your second paragraph

[SCM]

Terry,
Science does not prove the existence of God; it can't. The Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "Since in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom, has not known God, God has been pleased by the foolishness of the preaching to save those that believe." You can't bring others to Christ by arguing them into it. Paul also wrote to Timothy "The bondman of the Lord ought not to contend, but be gentle towards all...in meekness setting right those that oppose, if God perhaps may give them repentance to acknowledgment of the truth..." If someone opposes the truth, gently speak a word of correction, preferably from the Bible, and leave the convincing to God. He is able; we are not.

Oracle,
As I wrote to Terry, I can't prove to you that God exists, that Jesus was his Son, that He died a terrible death 2000 years ago, in a remote corner of the Roman Empire, for my sins, and that He rose from the dead on the third day (testimony that those sins are forever put away in God's eyes) but I know that they are true. The same man that wrote that the world has not known God through wisdom, wrote that all are without excuse "for from the world's creation the invisible things of Him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made, both His eternal power and divinity." The creation, the world around us doesn't prove God's existence, but it does testify to it. The question is whether or not you receive its testimony. For me, the Bible also provide convincing evidence. It is a book written by many different authors over 2000 years, but for me it is a remarkably consistent whole, much of it pointing to God's provision for man's need through His Son. (Perhaps the most interesting example is the 53rd chapter of Isaiah. It is essentially meaningless until looked at in the light of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus).

Though I enjoy these things, they didn't bring me to Christ, nor do they keep me there. I can't say why I believed, I wasn't raised with it, and when my sister first came home from college talking of Christ, I thought she was just a Jesus freak. But since believing, it is the relationship that keeps me. I have been slowly getting to know God over many years, through many circumstances. I can't prove to you that God exists, but you could never prove to me that he doesn't: I know Him.

You have said that you don't need God. That's okay. From what I have seen here at Qbasicnews, you seem like a good person. You are almost always a positive contributor. I appreciate that. Jesus said "They that are in sound health have not need of a physician, but those that are ill." My hope for you is that someday you will find that you are a needy sinner like me, and will turn to Christ, but I leave that in His hands.

[oracle]

SCM: you see the difference where terry does not. You know that Jesus is real, just the same way that I know he does not exist. And because we both know what is real for us, there's not point trying to prove to each other otherwise. And we both understand that.

And I hope that I never find myself a "needy sinner", because in my eyes I will always try to do the right thing. Perhaps if I do not need god in the future, it can be taken by religious people to be a good sign about me.

[Ninkazu]

SCM: you see the difference where terry does not. You know that Jesus is real, just the same way that I know he does not exist. And because we both know what is real for us, there's not point trying to prove to each other otherwise. And we both understand that.

And I hope that I never find myself a "needy sinner", because in my eyes I will always try to do the right thing. Perhaps if I do not need god in the future, it can be taken by religious people to be a good sign about me.

Come on, I'm atheist, and I do believe Jesus was a real person, just not the son of "God". Really, I think the 18 years missing of his childhood is the time it took him to devise a plan to change what he saw wrong with religion. Really, when I was 12, I started questioning all this Catholic crap. I read the Bible, I read famous physicist's lectures, I even read stuff from religious scientists. It came down to me choosing logic over fantasy.

[oracle]

I think that there is enough evidence to show that someone called Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago, but what I meant by "does not exist" was that I think that he wasn't the son of god.